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Re: Schubert Impromptus - relative difficulty #355955
04/07/08 12:03 PM
04/07/08 12:03 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,682
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
4000 Post Club Member
terminaldegree  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,682
Georgia, USA
Quote
Originally posted by Ferdinand:
Wiener Urtext rates op. 142 no.4 as more difficult than op. 142 no.1. RCM rates no.1 as the more difficult.
I'd like to hear opinions of people who have played these. No.4 looks and sounds more formidable to me. I've always wanted to learn no.1.
I presented all 4 of op.142 on my MM recital years ago. #1 is technically tough, but musically VERY tough. I've read that it was a long sonata movement which never was made into a whole sonata... the form is expansive and repetitive, so it takes imagination and great control to play well. #4 is musically straightforward, but I found it to be technically vicious! It's nowhere near a Liszt etude, of course, but you get SEVERELY punished for every technical foible-- it's very exposed... Typical Schubert: incessantly detail-oriented playing is required for a good performance.

I'm teaching #4 to one of my students now, and must admit it's a lot easier to handle 10 years later! The student is probably sick of my constant nit-picking... :rolleyes:


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Re: Schubert Impromptus - relative difficulty #355956
04/07/08 12:27 PM
04/07/08 12:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,522
Portland, Or.
G
gabytu Offline
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gabytu  Offline
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G

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,522
Portland, Or.
I adore Schubert and have struggled--and I do mean struggled with a number of the Impromptus. Usually get just so far, then get bogged down. Put it aside, then come back to it weeks--or even months later.

Op90 #l. Beginning is deceptivly simple, then one gets to pages 4 and 5 ( -Schirmer's edition) and the repeated chords in the left hand, and the repeated octaves in the right hand take real stamina. Never have really mastered them.

Op 90 #2, scale passages in the right hand doable, but getting them smooth and flowing the way they should is something else again. Never did finish this piece. It is 10 pages long.
\
Op. 90 #3. Yes, started this about a year ago. Got bogged down with the left hand trills which never seem to come out right. Also, I can't get the marvelous rippling sound in the right hand. Will keep working at it.

Op.90 #4, seems easier, but I just don't seem to be able to get the right hand part up to speed. My playing is very choppy. Never did get to the Trio section.

Op 94 #3. Yeah. I can play that one.

Now that I know that they are grade 9 and l0, I accept the fact that they are way beyond my comfort level, but nonetheless, well worth the struggle. Gaby Tu

Re: Schubert Impromptus - relative difficulty #355957
04/07/08 01:40 PM
04/07/08 01:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,962
London
D
David-G Offline
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David-G  Offline
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D

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,962
London
Thank you Jon for starting this thread, and Bruce for the info on the RCM ratings. This is really most helpful, as I don't have a teacher and so have no real way of rating my progress.

I was drawn to these by a recording of Op 142 No. 2. The trio section initially seemed daunting, but I was very gratified to find that with some serious practice I could cope quite passably with it. Although some serious work is still necessary to nail the passage around bars 65-69 in the trio.

I then looked at Op 142 no. 1, which I always found compelling when I heard it. After a lot of practice, I found that I could get through it, quite fluently in a lot of it, though with some serious struggles in one or two places.

I find with these Impromptus that I simply never tire of them. I can practice them over and over and over again, for months even, and continue to get as much delight from them as when I started. And sections like bars 159 to 178 of Op 142 no.1, which are sublime but tough to play properly with all the notes correct and phrasing to my satisfaction, gradually improve! I must say, I am astonished to find that I have been attempting a Diploma-level piece with some modest success.

So Ferdinand, I would definitely be encouraging. Have a go!

Re: Schubert Impromptus - relative difficulty #355958
04/07/08 06:19 PM
04/07/08 06:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 272
Jacksonville, FL
ctnski Offline
Full Member
ctnski  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 272
Jacksonville, FL
Quote
Originally posted by BruceD:
Quote
Originally posted by ctnski:
[b] Does RCM Syllabus rank Schubert's three pieces, D. 946? Thanks. I would like to get the new edition, when it is available. I also consult Maurice Hinson's book, an invaluable and interesting resource, though he only grades pieces as elementary, intermediate, moderately difficult, and difficult. Very thorough, however.

Cheers,

Craig
Craig :

RCM lists two of the Drei Klavierstücke, D946, numbers 1 and 3 as ARCT (diploma) level. The second of the three does not appear on any of their grade lists.

Regards, [/b]
BruceD,

Thanks very much for looking that up for me. I see several older editions of the syllabus available on amazon, but since the new one is almost out, I will just wait a little longer. The pieces, D. 946, are my favorite Schubert, and I am heartened to see I am not the only one who finds these challenging.

Best regards,

Craig, presently in the Yellow Sea, laying undersea cable (isn't modern life grand?)


NY Steinway A 2005; Roland FP-7F/ FP-4
Re: Schubert Impromptus - relative difficulty #355959
04/07/08 07:03 PM
04/07/08 07:03 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,099
Toronto, Canada
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Theowne  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,099
Toronto, Canada
The Op.142 No.2 is a relatively easy piece that sounds fantastic.


http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。
Re: Schubert Impromptus - relative difficulty #355960
04/07/08 08:29 PM
04/07/08 08:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 966
California
Ferdinand Offline
500 Post Club Member
Ferdinand  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 966
California
Thanks David-G, terminaldegree, and AZNpiano, for relating your experiences. I will consider planning to think about deciding to approach op.142 no.1. (maybe)

Re: Schubert Impromptus - relative difficulty #355961
04/07/08 09:31 PM
04/07/08 09:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,962
London
D
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David-G  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,962
London
Quote:
Originally posted by Theowne
"The Op.142 No.2 is a relatively easy piece that sounds fantastic."

For me the outer sections were relatively easy. The central section was and is a challenge. I am having fair success and it is extremely satisfying.

I would certainly agree that it sounds fantastic. And it is an excellent piece for demonstrating the qualities of my 1881 Bluthner, with the strong bass supporting and contrasting with the exquisite treble.

Re: Schubert Impromptus - relative difficulty #355962
04/07/08 10:52 PM
04/07/08 10:52 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,501
Champaign, IL
Fleeting Visions Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Fleeting Visions  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,501
Champaign, IL
I find capturing he charm of 142-2 to be quite difficult. Everything is transparent.


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
Re: Schubert Impromptus - relative difficulty #355963
04/08/08 08:16 PM
04/08/08 08:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,480
Alexandria, Egypt
Bassio Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Bassio  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,480
Alexandria, Egypt
To guys working on the Op.90 No.4 .. don't worry guys it will get eventually with hundreds of repetitions.

A tip I got from my teacher to help with evenness is to voluntarily 'swing' these arpeggios in a sense that you make the shortest time in the shift of the hand laterally to the next figuration.

After that play it in its regular time and you will notice a better performance in evenness when you get to these shifts.

A very nice piece and fun to play too. And in good hands it can work as a great show-stopper too. wink

And I agree it is the easiest of the four. The scales in no.2 for example scare the heck out of me and I don't approach this piece until now.

Marvellous compositions indeed!

Re: Schubert Impromptus - relative difficulty #355964
04/08/08 08:35 PM
04/08/08 08:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,962
London
D
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David-G  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,962
London
Quote
Originally posted by Bassio:
A tip I got from my teacher to help with evenness is to voluntarily 'swing' these arpeggios in a sense that you make the shortest time in the shift of the hand laterally to the next figuration.
Bassio - I'm sorry, I don't quite understand this. Could you perhaps explain it a bit more clearly?

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