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Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune? #35402
09/04/05 03:53 PM
09/04/05 03:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 30
Vancouver, BC
M
MDes Offline OP
Full Member
MDes  Offline OP
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 30
Vancouver, BC
I've been shopping around for a cheap upright (around $3000-$4000 CAD, maybe a bit more if it's something I really like) and am looking for one that's at least 48 inches. The only ones I found that were in my price range were a new Hoffman and Kuhne 48 inch for $3500 and a new Bergmann 48 inch for $3000 (sorry I don't know the exact models). I couldn't really find any cheap used pianos that were 10 years old or less; for example all the Yamaha U1's in my price range were at least 20 years old. So, all I'm pretty much left with is the Hoffman or the Bergmann, unless I buy a 20 year old Yamaha.

My question is does anyone know if Hoffman or Bergmann pianos are built well? I know they're both built in China, but I don't know how reliable they are. I like the sound of the Bergmann more, as the Hoffman sounds really dull, and I have no idea if a tuner or technician can change that.

And, if these pianos aren't reliable, how reliable would a 20 year old U1 be?

Thanks for all the replies.

PS. I've only been playing for around a year so I'm still new.

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Re: Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune? #35403
09/05/05 01:46 PM
09/05/05 01:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,271
Lexington, Kentucky
Monica K. Online blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012
Monica K.  Online Blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,271
Lexington, Kentucky
Sorry...I don't know much (= anything) about those two brands. Have you read the thread on the forum entitled something like "best upright for $4K"? It may have some suggestions for brands you haven't tried yet.

And, of course, you may want to read the Piano Book by Larry Fine to see what your options might be in that price range.

But all other things being equal, by all means go with the piano whose sound you like. A piano that sounds "really dull" in the showroom is likely to prove disappointing when you get home.

Anyway, hope this bumps your thread so that somebody with better knowledge of your choices can comment... and good luck with shopping!


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Re: Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune? #35404
09/05/05 02:08 PM
09/05/05 02:08 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,913
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Online content
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Steve Cohen  Online Content
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,913
Maryland/DC/No. VA
The Bergmann is made by Young Chang in their Tiajin Factory. For an entry-level piano they are a good value.

Hoffman & Kuhne don't show up in Larry Fine's book or his suppliment. Likey they are a "private label", made in China. Depending on where it is made and who made it, it might be OK too.

The Bergmann is a known entity and unless you hear more about the Hoffman, I would lean toward the Bergmann between the 2.

If you are willing to go to $4000CAD, I too advise that you keep shopping. At $3000CAD therre isn't much out there that would be better.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

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Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune? #35405
09/05/05 04:05 PM
09/05/05 04:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 30
Vancouver, BC
M
MDes Offline OP
Full Member
MDes  Offline OP
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 30
Vancouver, BC
Yea, I'm going to check out a couple more stores today (most of them are closed on labor day). One has a 50" Petrof but I don't know how old it is, does anyone know how old is too old for a Petrof? I'll probably be keeping it for around 10 years, 5 at the least.

Also, does anyone know if Heintzman pianos are good? There are 2 48" Heintzmans at the store I'm about to go to, but one is $3000 and the other $4000, hopefully I'll see whats up with that when I get there. Are Heintzman pianos reliable though?

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Re: Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune? #35406
09/05/05 08:15 PM
09/05/05 08:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 30
Vancouver, BC
M
MDes Offline OP
Full Member
MDes  Offline OP
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 30
Vancouver, BC
Ok, I just came back from probably my last round of sampling pianos. So my final question is, as long as I like the sound of both pianos, what will the difference be between buying the new Bergmann for $3000 or buying a 20 year old used yamaha for $4000? Other than sound, what are the other factors that I should consider when buying a piano, keeping in mind that I'm still new and hope to use the piano for the next 5 to maybe 8 years. Will the yamaha have no problems if it's already 20 years old? Or is it better to buy the new piano?

Re: Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune? #35407
09/06/05 12:31 AM
09/06/05 12:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,372
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Norbert  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,372
Surrey, B.C.
Quote
"What will be the difference between buying a new Bergman for $3000 or buying a 20 year old used Yamaha for $4000"
As a previous Bergman-Young Chang dealer I could be perhaps considered too biased to even contemplate an answer here but I *can* tell you that depending on which model, the guy who sells you the grey-market Yamaha will make more $$ on the deal.

Also, don't forget that in only 9 years, you will have a by now 29 year old Yamaha [ by the way,how do you know it's 20 years old?] whereas with the Bergman you would at least still have a whole year full factory warranty left.

Don't tell me this makes no difference in any possible resale value - especially since Yamaha Canada seems to block any [possibly required...] replacement parts to grey-market pianos in the future.

In hindesight, you would probably say one day you could have done better either way - but for that you need to shop a bit more......

P.S. The 'Hoffman-Kuehne' is a private label piano made lock-stock and barrel by Sejung/China.

I am not aware of even one single component or factor that would make this piano in any way,shape or form, connected to the old German name from Dresden, by the way, never been known to anyone even at that time.....

Good luck in your search!

norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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