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Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349909 05/09/07 09:16 AM
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Can different sets of etudes be applied to slightly different circumstances? For instance, I've noticed an incredible boost in my hand flexibility and general technique after studying Chopin's etude op. 10 no. 1.

Etudes I'm thinking of are Rachmaninoff's, Scriabin's, Liszt's, Chopin's, Alkan's, Moszkowski's, anyone, really, who has written etudes.

Is there a logical progression through which one can venture through these different composers and their etudes? Has anyone noted particular etudes which were particularly beneficial?

I've begun the Black Keys etude by Chopin (I'm convinced that Chopin etudes are incredibly beneficial to your technique, both from experience and hearing others talk about them), and speed and accuracy seem to be the primary improvements made from this etude.

I've also heard that transposing parts of etudes and playing through each key is very, very beneficial. I intend to play the opening pattern of the Black Keys etude in all 12 keys.

Has anyone noted any one composer's etudes to be particularly more beneficial than others?

Thanks a lot,

-Colin

Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349910 05/09/07 09:58 AM
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my teacher said that Chopin etudes are good for techniques, because each one emphasize on only one specific technique which you have to play continuously without much relief and therefore, it benefits one's techniques greatly. on the other hand, Liszt's might not be so benefitial, because each of those etudes basically contains various techniques and you don't really benefit much on improving a few sepecific areas.

Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349911 05/09/07 10:34 AM
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Personally, I would do a Czerny book for fluidity.

Then, I would compartmentalize into working 2 kinds of etudes at once. Group one would be Moszkowski Etudes for finger dexterity, moving on to Chopin for the same kind of work.
Group 2 is Wrist, arm technique and doublenotes.

I'd work on Saint-Saens Op. 52-1,3, then 111-6, then 52-6. Then, I'd move on to any of the Liszt Etudes D'Execution Transcendante.

I think that working both tracks of etudes would be most beneficial and wise.
(P.S. Can anyone validate such a plan?)


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349912 05/09/07 10:38 AM
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Depends on what each hand requires--and what the person wishes to enhance. I always stress the Clementi Gradus ad Parnassum as an adjunct to the Moszkowski Etudes.

Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349913 05/09/07 10:49 AM
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Liszt's Harmonies du Soir is very good for cultivating a good pedal technique - there aren't many etudes that make the pedal the focus but I believe this is one.

Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349914 05/09/07 10:49 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by dnephi:
Personally, I would do a Czerny book for fluidity.
As unfashionable as it is with some on this forum, I still say 5-finger exercises practised with full concentration will accomplish anything Czerny can... and in a fraction of the time.
Quote

I'd work on Saint-Saens Op. 52-1,3, then 111-6, then 52-6.
These are terrific etudes. (And don't forget the etudes for left hand, Opus 135.) Piers Lane, in the notes to his Hyperion recording, claims they were as hard for him as the Liszt Etudes. eek


Jason
Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349915 05/09/07 10:56 AM
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Part of why I mentioned the Czerny book is that I was assigned to breeze through an easy one left over from years ago.

I looked through the Saint-Saens Etudes thinking that they would be a tool to bridge the gap between my current technique and the technique I would need to properly deal with the Liszt Etudes and other pieces of similar technical requirements which I love. They, unlike any other etudes I had looked at, seem to fill that gap, and I was hoping that someone who had experience which the Saint-Saens etudes and those of higher level such as Liszt's Etudes might be able to comment on the feasibility of such a path.


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349916 05/09/07 11:00 AM
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late Scriabin etudes allow you to concentrate on technical aspects you can't seem to find in the rest of the etude repertory. Then again, I guess there's not a whole lot of material you can apply them to either! (except other later Scriabin of course)

Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349917 07/04/07 06:11 AM
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I've only played Czerny and Chopin etudes, and I think I need to branch out. The Czerny are quick to learn (I practice only 4-6 hrs a week) because there is only 1 or 2 configurations, and the keys are usually very basic (unfortunately). They seem to be good for finger dexterity, fluidity, evenness. But I think I need some etudes more focused on the arm and wrist. Some of the Chopin would be good for this, but not sure what else.


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Bryan
Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349918 07/04/07 10:11 AM
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What do people think about Bach's 2 and 3 part Inventions and the WTC for technique building?

Sophia

Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349919 07/04/07 11:37 AM
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my teacher said that Chopin's Etudes are something every pianist must know. I'm still learning to stretch my hands out so that I can play octaves easily and my teacher said that eventually she wants me to learn all of his etudes.


Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata
Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349920 07/04/07 11:39 AM
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Besides that, I am currently learning 2 of Chopin's Etudes and I find that they are so many things that can be learned from those.


Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata
Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349921 07/04/07 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Amelialw:
... my teacher said that eventually she wants me to learn all of his etudes.


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Bryan
Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349922 07/04/07 01:30 PM
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Do you guys start Chopin Etudes and then it takes you like forever to finish them? My teacher once suggested the one in Fm. I feel like I'm not at the level to play them, but at the same time they're studies... so where should you be before starting his etudes? Or do you think it matters?

Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349923 07/04/07 03:20 PM
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well, what is your level/grade now? Yeah sometimes it feels like it takes me forever to finish them especially my Chopin Etude in F major. If your teacher suggested it, it means that you probably are ready for it, the f minor one is the easiest between Op.10&Op.25. Before you start his etudes your technique should be well done and stable.


Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata
Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349924 07/04/07 03:26 PM
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I'm really not sure what level I am. On an 8 scale I'd say a 4 or 5. I did a Chopin Nocturne Op. 9 No. 2, and a Haydn sonata 1st movement (not sure the number) in B minor and now I'm working on Hindemith's piano sonata no. 2 1st movement. Those were over the past few semesters (they were my exam pieces plus a jazz tune and technique).

Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349925 07/04/07 04:07 PM
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your standard would be around Grade 10 RCM. You should be ready for Chopin's Etude in f minor.


Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata
Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349926 07/04/07 11:14 PM
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Etudes can sometimes go beyond the tactile...


I studied Ligeti's Second etude of Book 1, cordes a vide. I would consider it a rhythmic etude (it has very little technical challenge). I benefitted tremendously from it! Through that etude, I learned how to figure out polyrhythms without the help of my teacher. Rhythms like 7 against 8 etc. Now if Beethoven has one of his little odd 3 against 4 sections I apply what I have learned. In fact, I just used it today in Bach's 6th partita.

The same with Messiaen's rhythmic etudes, which I studied casually.

The mind, like the hands, must sometimes act as a machine... and we need etudes for that muscle as well.


"Beauty is unbearable, drives us to despair, offering us for a minute the glimpse of an eternity that we should like to stretch out over the whole of time."

-Albert Camus,

Jim
Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349927 07/05/07 11:04 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Amelialw:
your standard would be around Grade 10 RCM. You should be ready for Chopin's Etude in f minor.
There are three Etudes in f minor: Op. 10 No. 9, Op. 25 No. 2 and the first of the "Trois Nouvelles Etudes."

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Benefits of different composer's etudes?
#349928 07/05/07 11:09 AM
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Yeah, which one in F minor? I did the 10/9, and if you don't use the right technique for the LH, it *will* take you forever because you struggle with the 6-note groups instead of using this pivoting technique that will feel new to you (I suppose this is what you are supposed to learn from this particular etude, but it took me awhile to realize it!)

25/2 doesn't have much in the way of new technique, aside from a heck of a lot of fast 3 over 2.

I don't know much about the Nouvelles Etudes

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