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#349425 - 12/27/07 09:06 PM Chopin op.10 #4  
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Dave Ferris Offline
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Holy Mollie!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ-NAgDpRVs

Quarter=around 192.


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
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#349426 - 12/27/07 09:08 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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pianojerome Offline
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Sam
#349427 - 12/27/07 09:27 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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LiszThalberg Offline
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Speed is only a fraction of Richter's talent. Escaping from a sack and hand-cuffs is another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDUTTRGOJdE

#349428 - 12/27/07 10:46 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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8ude Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Debussy20:
Speed is only a fraction of Richter's talent. Escaping from a sack and hand-cuffs is another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDUTTRGOJdE
LOL I had never seen that before - thanks for the laugh... smile


What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.
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#349429 - 12/28/07 02:53 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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Ah... this has been posted before. But of course nice to be reminded of it.

Our more conservative members -not in short supply- will be up in arms about the excessive speed. Not "musical", eh?

But Richter, one of the greatest pianists ever? Reminds me of Ignaz Friedman who was once asked why he played the Chopin Etudes so fast: "Because I can."

Care to argue the point with them? One of the many glories of the Chopin Etudes must certainly be that they are completely musical at any speed. Part and parcel.

Chopin knew what he was up to. He was nobody's fool.


Jason
#349430 - 12/28/07 04:08 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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Fleeting Visions Offline
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I am of the opinion that Richter's most absurd recordings are far from polite and often feel unmusical just by virtue of insanity.


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
#349431 - 12/29/07 08:50 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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Robert Kenessy Offline
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Enebyberg Sweden
Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Our more conservative members -not in short supply- will be up in arms about the excessive speed. Not "musical", eh?
I regard myself as a more conservative member, but I still think the Richter etude is great. i actually started yesterday on this etude as a prelimainary good new years resolution to play something else than Beethoven and Bartók. Actually upon close analysis of the other youtube video, I think Tsjaikovski may also be within my reach after all.


Robert Kenessy

.. it seems to me that the inherent nature [of the piano tone] becomes really expressive only by means of the present tendency to use the piano as a percussion instrument - Béla Bartók, early 1927.
#349432 - 12/29/07 09:13 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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A mentor of mine, Dr. Bouri told be that, when teaching a theory class at Interlochen about 20 years ago, a TEN year old played him op. 10 #4

#349433 - 12/29/07 11:05 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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wdot Offline
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Thanks for the laugh, Debussy20. I'm a huge Monty Python fan, but I've never seen this bit before.

And, by the way, the Richter video is really quite scary.

#349434 - 12/31/07 04:36 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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wr Offline
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A ten year old playing op. 10, no. 4? That's sort of creepy and somehow - oh, I don't know the right word - musically inappropriate, maybe.

#349435 - 01/01/08 05:33 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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CherryCoke Offline
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Inappropriate how? It's not a deep piece. Difficult, yes (I am studying it myself now, and I ain't 10). But if he can play it, more power to him.

#349436 - 01/01/08 05:49 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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pianist.ame Offline
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I agree, this etude is more about technicality more than anything else.

I don't like Richter's version, it's too fast for my taste but oh yes, it's very impressive technically.


Mastering:Chopin Etudes op.10 nos.8&12 and op.25 no.1, Chopin Scherzo no.4 in E major op.54, Mozart Sonata in B flat major K.333& Khachaturian Toccata
#349437 - 01/01/08 10:09 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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Alexander Hanysz Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by daveferris:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ-NAgDpRVs

Quarter=around 192.
!!!

Crazy, but certainly exciting! Just 1:36--for comparison, I have CDs of Cortot, Pollini, Bereszovsy and Ashkenazy playing this piece: they all take 2 minutes or more.

I find that I don't always "approve" of Richter's interpretations, but they're never dull :-)

#349438 - 01/02/08 12:10 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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argerichfan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Alexander Hanysz:
I find that I don't always "approve" of Richter's interpretations, but they're never dull :-)
Not for nothing is Richter the absolute Titan of the piano.

Even his Schubert D960... take it or leave it. Yet his courage and conviction in observing the 1st mov't repeat... perhaps the blood runs too fast in our day and age, we seem to be conditioned for instant gratification.

And thus, grand and profound works such as Bach's St. Matthew Passion, Wagner's Parsifal, Bruckner's 8th Symphony and Elgar's The Kingdom are casualties of impatience.

Rather a sorry commentary. Listen to Richter in the Schubert. But do not do so if there are other pressing engagements, okay?


Jason
#349439 - 01/02/08 12:29 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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Janus K. Sachs Offline
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Betelgeuse, baby!
argerichfan, to me that repeat is essential! Unlike Brendel, I absolutely detest anyone who doesn't take the repeat. The Italian Symphony's first movement is another great example. And again, I agree with you about the other works, especially Parsifal. One must be in the proper frame of mind to properly listen to those pieces!
P.S.: I listened to Bruckner's 8th in its original, unrevised state last night. Wonderful! smile


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#349440 - 01/02/08 12:38 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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What do you guys think is the hardest Chopin Etude?

I think it was Horowitz who said he thought the hardest was the op 10 no 1.


"I was obliged to be industrious. Whoever is equally industrious will succeed equally well."

J.S. Bach
#349441 - 01/02/08 09:46 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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hopinmad Offline
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I've only played the first two, but looking at the scores of all of them I would think the rolled chords one (op.10 no.11 I think).


Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin
#349442 - 01/02/08 10:52 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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argerichfan Offline
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Sorry, continuing off-topic :rolleyes:

Quote
Originally posted by Janus Sachs:
... to me that repeat is essential! Unlike Brendel, I absolutely detest anyone who doesn't take the repeat.
Brendel, who is always fascinating to read, wrote a brilliant defense of why he ignores the 1st mov't repeat.

But I still don't agree with him...


Jason
#349443 - 01/02/08 11:32 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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Fleeting Visions Offline
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Schumann wrote that they are of "heavenly lengths".


Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon
#349444 - 01/02/08 12:11 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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Janus K. Sachs Offline
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Betelgeuse, baby!
Quote
Originally posted by Cheeto717:
What do you guys think is the hardest Chopin Etude?

I think it was Horowitz who said he thought the hardest was the op 10 no 1.
Check out this thread. xtraheat's and drudged's lists are quite informative.
(See, I CAN be on topic sometimes!)


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#349445 - 01/02/08 07:03 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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wr Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by SPS:
Inappropriate how? It's not a deep piece. Difficult, yes (I am studying it myself now, and I ain't 10). But if he can play it, more power to him.
Well, I guess if it's not a deep piece to you, then it's not. But to me, it's musically quite intense, and too much so for a ten year old to understand (I hope, for the kid's sake).

#349446 - 01/02/08 08:06 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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JBiegel Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Cheeto717:
What do you guys think is the hardest Chopin Etude?

I think it was Horowitz who said he thought the hardest was the op 10 no 1.
Probably so. They all present their difficulties. I do, though, disagree with an earlier post that Op. 10 #4 is all technical--no. There is much music in this indeed. I've never timed mine at YouTube--now I'm curious. I am on tour, and my laptop's sound card is messed--no sound. If anyone cares to time mine, feel free to go to YouTube, type my last name in and the Op. 10#4 should be a choice.

#349447 - 01/02/08 08:11 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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Kreisler Offline
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Mr. Biegel's clocks in at 1:58, and it's fantastic!


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#349448 - 01/02/08 08:37 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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Richter himself was appalled at some of the speeds he had taken earlier in life, especially with the Liszt etudes (see Notebooks). Though apparently he played the Chopin that fast only to show off.

#349449 - 01/02/08 09:01 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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FLMikeATT Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by pianojerome:
Op. 10 #2, and she\'s 16.
10 year old plays Chopin etude 25/12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4td_Zn6G3U

#349450 - 01/03/08 06:57 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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showbiz Offline
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Bloody heck!!!

#349451 - 01/03/08 01:32 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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Antonius Hamus Offline
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Arrau was seven when he was already playing Liszt's Gnomenreigen publicly.

#349452 - 01/04/08 04:35 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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CherryCoke Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by wr:
Quote
Originally posted by SPS:
[b] Inappropriate how? It's not a deep piece. Difficult, yes (I am studying it myself now, and I ain't 10). But if he can play it, more power to him.
Well, I guess if it's not a deep piece to you, then it's not. But to me, it's musically quite intense, and too much so for a ten year old to understand (I hope, for the kid's sake). [/b]
I never said it wasn't intense, it certainly is! A brooding firestorm if there ever was one. I simply wouldn't place it in the category of "life experience" pieces, like say, Beethoven opus 111, or late Brahms, etc etc. As Jeffrey pointed out, there's much music here, but I don't find it to be esoteric.

If I'm missing something,please fill me in (before my teacher does, haha!) smile

#349453 - 01/04/08 11:00 PM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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timbo77 Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Sorry, continuing off-topic :rolleyes:

Quote
Originally posted by Janus Sachs:
... to me that repeat is essential! Unlike Brendel, I absolutely detest anyone who doesn't take the repeat.
Brendel, who is always fascinating to read, wrote a brilliant defense of why he ignores the 1st mov't repeat.

But I still don't agree with him...
The more I listen to Brendel (both his performances and his writings), the more I find him insufferable. The musical analysis that contributes to someone's interpretation is very important, but surely it must result in a performance that is effective on its own terms. Richter's interpretation for me is totally compelling, without his having written an article about the piece smile

#349454 - 01/07/08 12:35 AM Re: Chopin op.10 #4  
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keithmusic Offline
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The Chopin Opus 10 #4 Etude has to be one of the hardest with it's multiple double sharps. To see it played live is an amazing treat.

Keith
http://www.keithphillips.net


Keith Phillips

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Piano technique for all levels
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