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Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336679
03/10/06 09:29 PM
03/10/06 09:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 989
Toronto
Kawaigirl1 Offline
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#1 Grotrian

#2 Kawai

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Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336680
03/11/06 03:27 AM
03/11/06 03:27 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,269
Midwest U.S.
ChickGrand Offline
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Midwest U.S.
Quote
Originally posted by Norbert:
...Just another inalienable attempt to prove that there ain't any difference between Kawai and Grotrian.... help
If that's the point, I think he's succeeding. Whichever way around, those two pianos would make for truly nice two-pianos, four-hands. Whichever way around it is, the Kawai's holding its own with a whole other class of instrument. I enjoyed the playing of one of my favorite pieces. I have a Kawai among my herd so I'll refrain from casting my incorrect vote until Sunday. :p

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336681
03/11/06 07:09 AM
03/11/06 07:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 79
saturation Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
Geez, everybody seems to have perfect pitch. I wish I did. Well, maybe I don't. If I did, I'd always be annoyed at slightly out of tune pianos. laugh

Both pianos were tuned toward the end of January. We've had some humidity swings since then.
By far, Piano*Dad! I'm not sure of the pitch but I know the fullness of a well organized unison coordinated with its 87 relatives smile

I was rushed, but forgot to complement you on the quality of the recording! Kudos.

As for my selection, I should state I am not familiar with either specific model, have never played a Grotian [ new or old, but know its rep] but have on Kawais.

I put my selection as I did but the only high certainty I can put forth is that:

Pianos 1 & 2, playing the same composition, do not sound the same!

Of that, #2 sounds better.

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336682
03/11/06 09:08 AM
03/11/06 09:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 20
New Jersey
R
rtaorm Offline
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New Jersey
#1 Kawai
#2 Grotrian

Now that I finally decided, I'm sure I'm wrong.

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336683
03/11/06 10:17 AM
03/11/06 10:17 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 52
Ct
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Ct
Quote
Originally posted by curry:
1. was the Kawai
2. was the grotrian
Both pianos need tuning, and voicing at the areas surrounding the bass/tenor break. Son needs to feel more of a rubato in the opening and closing measures. It was really perfunctory playing of Gerswin, but he'll grow into it.
I've edited this after calming down a bit. I'll just say that, regarding the above, I'm sure that the poster has a fine ear for voicing and intonation.


go Red Sox!
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336684
03/11/06 10:27 AM
03/11/06 10:27 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 52
Ct
Troyboy Offline
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I. K
II. G

I'm still seeing red, but I'll post anyhow.

Your son is making extraordinary progress for his age. The performance was not perfunctory given his age and experience; it was, in fact, remarkably contained. He's had coaching, I'll wager, that's put his sense of rubato right where it belongs for now.

That said, I hope he continues to have fun in his jazz ensemble, and continues to 'play out' his pieces further than the adjudicators might like...nothing wrong with that.


go Red Sox!
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336685
03/11/06 10:31 AM
03/11/06 10:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,365
Philadelphia
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Philadelphia
Noona loves Gershwin and swooned over Anthony's rendition. Now if only her grandson could play like that. Noona may be looking for another technician, but I'm not sure playing is a pre-requisite. :p

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336686
03/11/06 01:18 PM
03/11/06 01:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 861
Raleigh
I
I. Bruton Offline
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Raleigh
1) Kawai
2) Grotrian

Good job on the quality of the recordings! Both pianos have a good tone, but the Kawai #1 is further out of tune than the Grotrian #2.


I. Bruton
B.A. Music Composition
M.M. Music Education
High School Choral Director
Church Music Director
Pianos owned: Yamaha C3
Pianos at work: Yamaha P22, Kawai K3, Steinway B
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336687
03/11/06 05:14 PM
03/11/06 05:14 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,886
San Francisco
whippen boy Offline
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Piano*Dad, I'm sure you knew that there would be some *additional* lumps coming (re: the tuning, regulation, recording, mic placement, interpretation).

When I posted my recording I was pretty oblivious to everything but the sound of the piano. When all the other comments started rolling in I was really fascinated - but alarmed too!

Oh well...the joys of being scrutinized by the Internet community. whome

I'll vote when the rules permit me to do so. I know that Grotrian sound. wink


M&H "A" at home
Bösendorfer Imperial
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336688
03/11/06 05:29 PM
03/11/06 05:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 246
Ithaca, NY
yellowville Offline
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Ithaca, NY
Since I just played both brands of piano within minutes of each other earlier in the week, I'd love to vote in this... but somehow my computer doesn't seem to recognize the links.

I have to say, the Grotians I played the other day nearly killed me, they were so gorgeous...


That man is richest whose pleasures are the cheapest. - H. D. Thoreau
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336689
03/11/06 05:52 PM
03/11/06 05:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,546
US
sophial Offline
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Ok, i'll give it a shot:
1. Kawai
2. Grotrian

PianoDad: Please tell Anthony what a nice job he did! I'm very impressed!

Sophia

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336690
03/12/06 08:33 AM
03/12/06 08:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 999
The Midwest
George K Offline
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1. Kawai
2. Grotrian


[Linked Image]
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336691
03/12/06 10:21 AM
03/12/06 10:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 154
Ohio, USA
Bluthner Offline
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I like the second piano better, and was going to guess that was the Kawai, but then I saw the Grotrian is slightly bigger, so I am going to change my guess and go with the consensus.

I love both pianos.

Also, I like the straightforward playing although I agree a little bit of voicing would not hurt either piano, specially piano #1.

Thanks for putting this together!


I have no affiliation with Bluthner, I just like their pianos a lot.
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336692
03/12/06 11:40 AM
03/12/06 11:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,949
Williamsburg, VA
Piano*Dad Offline
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Whippen,

Nobody has said anything about mic placement yet! laugh

Actually, I'd like to experiment with hanging the microphones in the piano rather than having them on vertical stands outside of the case. I guess the tradeoff is better differentiation between treble and bass against the possibility of a more percussive sound.

Best,

David

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336693
03/12/06 12:02 PM
03/12/06 12:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 58
Orange County, CA
S
sonaptu Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Orange County, CA
#1 Grotrian
#2 Kawai

I'm a novice at this, but I tried the Kawai's last year and heard a tone that I also hear in #2. The Grotrian's tone has a clearer depth...kind of like a Steinway. The #2 piano is more "mechanical" sounding...cleaner..and the tone is not as deep. So that puts me in the 10% minority. We'll see!

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336694
03/12/06 12:34 PM
03/12/06 12:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,866
Massachusetts
R
Roy123 Offline
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Massachusetts
Piano Dad is making it hard for us by not telling us the length of each piano. That said, I vote:
1 Kawai
2 Grotrian

Both pianos had their pluses and minuses. Kudo to the young pianist.

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336695
03/12/06 01:00 PM
03/12/06 01:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,949
Williamsburg, VA
Piano*Dad Offline
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Roy123,

Hey, I certainly did give that information. It's in the introductory post! wink

Grotrian 192 (192 cm is roughly 6'4" )
Kawai GE 550 (5'9")

They're both grands. We're not comparing a tiny baby grand to a concert instrument here.

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336696
03/12/06 06:04 PM
03/12/06 06:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 698
Dallas, TX
WynnBear Offline
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Dallas, TX
Having never heard a Grotrian, this is just a guess, but #1 sounded like a Kawai to me. I'd have it voiced down for my taste, I found it a bit bright.

Piano #2 sounds both nasal (tenor) and woody (bass) to me, and is not my taste at all. Having said that, it also sounds more powerful.

1 = Kawai
2 = Grotrian

The performances were very good. I played that piece for a festival years ago in high school. I found the speed a little fast, but the rubato was done well. Not too much, but adding the jazz feeling this prelude needs. Good job!


Wynne
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336697
03/12/06 07:15 PM
03/12/06 07:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 849
Houston, TX
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Houston, TX
An interesting rendition - well played. While I tend to play the 2nd Prelude more in the style of Leon Bates' rendition plus the fact that #2 was a better recording (at least with my download), I'd have to say:

1. Kawai
2. Grotrian

Regards,
Roger


Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence.
Estonia 190 - Serial # 6561
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336698
03/12/06 10:39 PM
03/12/06 10:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 58
Connecticut
I
IceCreaMPiMP Offline
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Connecticut
Hmm... As soon as I heard the first I thought the treble was quite bright(i am listening with headphones). Also the bass at teh end felt a bit shallower(I don't think that's a word). 2 Has a more refined sounding treble to my ears. I almost made this decision based on what I might find in a pop-piano and what I wouldn't.

1. Kawai
2. Grotrian

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336699
03/12/06 10:50 PM
03/12/06 10:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Portland, Oregon
Grandpianoman Offline
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Portland, Oregon
Wow, definitely in the minority here!....waiting with baited breath for the answer. laugh

Gpman

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336700
03/12/06 10:52 PM
03/12/06 10:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,371
Orange County, CA
KawaiDon Offline
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Orange County, CA
My guess -
#1 sounds like a Howard grand from the 60s.
#2 sounds like the Grotrian.

It's easy to hear differences between the pianos, but it really isn't very easy to identify the pianos. There are too many variables in piano tone - especially because of the need for some voicing work in both pianos ( especially string leveling).

Nice playing, BTW. I enjoyed listening.


Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336701
03/13/06 10:28 AM
03/13/06 10:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 218
upstate New York
treeman Offline
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upstate New York
David and son,

I'm reluctant to say much, because I don't want to suggest that either piano is anything less than what you think it is. The Kawai is older and has its original hammers. The first recording sounded a little percusive or fundamental to me, which might indicate hammers that had hardened over time. The second was more lush, but less distinct in the individual notes. Given the Grotraian's reputation in the treble (wooden and very long sustain) I paid particular attention to the this. Reason would say that 1 is the Kawai ... but I actually liked the sound of the first better given the piece chosen for this comparison. My gut tells me that 1 is the Grotrain, and 2 is the Kawai that has had some serious work by a tech to make it sound more lush. So ...

1 is the Grotrian
2 is the Kawai

I applaud the playing on this piece. I had my children listen to it ... very expressive.


scott
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336702
03/13/06 09:19 PM
03/13/06 09:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,949
Williamsburg, VA
Piano*Dad Offline
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Poll closes tomorrow! A lot of regulars haven't chimed in yet. smile

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336703
03/14/06 03:06 AM
03/14/06 03:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 328
Petaluma, CA
canaday Offline
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Petaluma, CA
1= Kawai
2= Grotrian

The "hum" in the notes sounds slightly looser in #1. And, for whatever it's worth, both pianos sound plucky... to me... at this moment...

*sigh*

Great piece, and beautifully played!

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336704
03/14/06 06:13 AM
03/14/06 06:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,054
NY
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jon-nyc Offline
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NY
Very good playing, Piano*Son!


Hmmm... i'm voting against the trend.

#1 has that signature Grotrian sustain. you can hear it as soon as the melody comes in.

both are fine pianos.


If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336705
03/14/06 07:39 AM
03/14/06 07:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 13
Moscow
E
evgeny kissin Offline
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Posts: 13
Moscow
1=................Grotrian
2=................Kawai

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336706
03/14/06 12:34 PM
03/14/06 12:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,694
Oakland
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Oakland
Although I have heard both makes of piano, I have not had enough experience with newer models to distinguish that way, but 1 sounds smaller than 2. They both sound like they were tuned poorly, as opposed to having gone out of tune for climatic reasons.


Semipro Tech
Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336707
03/14/06 02:00 PM
03/14/06 02:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,171
Wisconsin
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I am not eligible to vote but your son is an excellent pianist.

Re: Identify the Kawai and Grotrian! Vote! #336708
03/14/06 06:37 PM
03/14/06 06:37 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,886
San Francisco
whippen boy Offline
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No time to go into details at the moment, but here is my vote:

1. Grotrian
2. Kawai


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