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#3216129 05/14/22 08:50 AM
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Zera Offline OP
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Hello to you all,
I hesitated to post here, as I am very very new in this digital piano world, but I need help as I'm quite lost...
I played the piano for ten years when a was a kid, but I'm not a musician, I don't have a good ear at all. I was a serious student though, exercising a lot. But I never reach the place where I could actually play music, I was only playing a succession of notes... Anyway, I have a son, 9 years old, who is the exact opposite : he started piano lesson a few months ago, and already he is really listening to the music that comes out of his fingers...
So, I need to buy something for him to practice. For now I have an old Yamaha psr200, so it should not be hard to find something better, that's for sure. However, I am on a tight budget (and I also don't have a lot of space) and I would like to avoid having to buy something new in two years (or even four years...). So I am trying to find something second hand, and here come my questions :
Is an instrument that was good ten years ago still pretty decent now, or is the technology changing so fast that it is not the case ? Obviously I care only about the sound and the touch... For around 500 euros from what I read, I could find a relatively recent Roland FP-30 or old Yamaha arius (ydp s51 for instance) or casio privia (px830 for instance, or px760). What should I go for ?
Also, what is the life span of these digital piano ?
Regarding the touch, I understand that it is a question of taste basically, but is there a technology that is better for learning ? It will be the only instrument my son practices on... I found a great table on this forum (that's how I arrived here ;-) ), but still it's hard to have an opinion...
Maybe I'm completely wrong about my budget also, and I won't find what I'm looking for at this price range... If that's the case, what would be the minimal budget for something (second hand) that will give him a good learning experience regarding to his fingers, and a lot of pleasure from listening, and will last many years ?
Thank you so much for any advice that you would be willing to give !!!

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Zera --- if you played a piano for that long a time - such as 10 years, then you're certainly counted a musician, regardless of how you play it.

Various pianos to choose from in your price range. Your son really should go to the piano shop - if you can get to one - to try out the various sorts, such as that Roland FP-30. Also check out some yamaha range (on youtube or google - search for Lara6683 - and see the header text in the 'read more' section --- where she recommends entry level digital pianos, and higher up). I think kawai recently jacked up their prices for digital pianos. But could also check out kawai es110. Also - there's a KORG B2.

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Also - it's hard to say what the life of an instrument will be. Some instruments will develop rattles, or click sounds etc after some time, which usually can be treated or addressed by somebody servicing it - adding grease to relevant parts, or doing some servicing on material that is meant to cut down on noises within the instrument. Some instruments could keep working just fine for a decade, or more without any servicing.

Relatively complex and sophisticated systems, especially ones with lots of parts, and electronic components, usually fails eventually - beyond practical repair. But that's ok --- people are generally lucky - and these instruments can last for a relatively long time.

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The PSR-2xx isn't touch-sensitive, which is a major barrier to developing piano skills. The next instrument should have weighted, touch-sensitive keys. Preferably 88 of them.

Technology has been changing fast enough, so that a ten-year old DP is significantly behind a new DP that's in the same place in a maker's line-up.

If you browse here, you'll find lots of lists of low-price DP's -- the FP30 is on most of them. If you can find a used one, and it's in your budget, and all the keys and buttons work, it's a good choice.

Any Casio DP with a "tri-sensor ii" action will be OK. I'll check the specific models you mentioned.

A Yamaha P115/P125 will be OK. A Kawai ES100/ES110 will be OK.

This is a tool for your son's education. It should be several years before his skills reach a level that let him (and his teacher) say:

.... "Mom, I could really use a better piano."

Deal with that when it happens. He'll be playing Mozart and Beethoven, well enough for you to enjoy them.


. Charles
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I have a Yamaha P-125. The piano sound is good although not the best. The weighted action is sufficient that I can go back and forth between it and an acoustic. For the time being it's ok for learning intermediate level pieces up to a RCM-6. I played in church before and like the church organ sound more than the piano sound.

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Originally Posted by Zera
Also, what is the life span of these digital piano ?

I purchased a Casio Privia PX-310 digital stage piano, new, back around 2005/2006, and between me and my grandchildren, we played it hard and often. And, it is amazing how well it has held up all these years. All the functions still work as well as when new, and the action feels as good as it ever did. I'm very impressed with how well it has held up over the years.

I recently upgraded to a Casio PX-360, just to get a better/upgraded piano tone, and if holds up as well as the PX-310, I'll be more than pleased.

All the best!

Rick


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Of those, I'd go for the Roland FP-30. I prefer the action over Casios and Yamahas in that price range. Tastes vary of course.

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Originally Posted by moshuajusic
Of those, I'd go for the Roland FP-30. I prefer the action over Casios and Yamahas in that price range. Tastes vary of course.
The Roland actions are uneven (consistently heavy - not graded - in the lower couple of octaves with the graded weighting only starting above the bass.

Price is always a factor as well. In Singapore I went with the Yamaha P125 because it was 30% cheaper than the Kawai ES110.

Then when I recently moved back to Australia I went with the Kawai ES110 because it was 30% cheaper than the Yamaha P125. USD $445 + tax (AUD $616 + tax).

Unless you have unlimited cash, price is always one of the deciding considerations.

Also the weight graduation of the ES110 is more even/consistent than the Yamaha and Roland entry level offerings.

Last edited by Burkey; 05/14/22 07:33 PM.

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Hello,
Thank you for all your comments and suggestions !
What about the FP10 ? (It's more in my price range than the fp30, it look like finding a second one is not really easy...).
This afternoon I did go to a music store, but they sell only Yamahas (P45 and P125) and the Korg B2, that I did not know about before reading your replies ;-). I have to admit that I'm not a huge fan of the Yamaha (even if the guy told me that these models were recommended by most teachers..), I found the keyboard very very light. The Korg was a lot heavier, but after coming home I read on the internet many comments saying that both were very similar, so I'm a bit lost !! (Again ;-) ) I liked the sound of the Korg better than the Yamaha too... So I would say that if I don't find the perfect second hand deal, my choice will be between the FP10 and the Korg B2. Any thought on the subject ? (I did see a thread about it, but it was focusing on the clicking noise, and let's be optimistic that's not a problem I will get ;-) ). According to internet reviews the FP10 is a winter, but I I'm in need of expert opinions about keyboard strength and sound !
Thank you so much again !

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Originally Posted by Zera
. . .or casio privia (px830 for instance, or px760).

From Wikipedia - "Privia":

The PX-830 was introduced in 2010.

The PX-760 was introduced in 2014, and seems to be similar to the PX-830. The PX-830 has more powerful amps, and might sound better.

As far as I can determine, neither of those DP's has the most-recent version of the "Tri-Sensor" keyboard. Previous "Tri-sensor" versions were OK. If you could find a PX-150 at a reasonable price, that would do fine. It's a dumbed-down version of my PX-350 -- no "arranger" function, less connectivity -- but the keyboard and piano-sound generator are identical.


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b2 definitely plays lighter than fp10, it's about the same with p45. i don't like the b2 very much because it rebounds really slowly. fp10/30/x with the pha4 are quite stiff..

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Excellent comments have been given by all the forum members above.

Zera ------- if you have checked out Lara6683's youtube vids, then you will see that she has no problem with recommending yamaha entry level digital pianos. For 9 year olds - or maybe anybody - whatever the age is ----- if a particular keyboard mechanism/behaviour is truly too 'heavy' for them, such that playing is not enjoyable or truly unpleasant for them, then just go for a digital piano with an adequately lighter action.

Regardless of which 'entry level' model to choose - eg. yamaha P-45, P-125, Korg B2, Roland FP10, kawai es110 ---- they will all be fit for learning. Actually, in the careful hands of somebody that has experience with gadgets/contraptions etc --- most minor issues that exist, or develop (eg. clicking/clacking, rattles) can generally be fixed, where an appropriate service (or amount of work) can get a particular instrument back to original faultless condition, or even better than 'factory' condition, as we know - some instruments may even come with clicks/rattles/vibrations etc even when brand new.

At the store - with the unit switched off ----- and when you push the keys, there will be the usual thump sounds, which are generally relatively soft. But if you get relatively loud thumps, rattles, clicks, clacks, ratchety sounds etc that just don't sound like they should be there ------ then ask about it. And/or check out a different model, or different instrument.

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Zera Offline OP
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Thank you so much for all your comments, they have been most helpful ! I am very happy to say that I eventually found a very good second hand FP30, with the stand and the three pedals ! Someone whose kid did not enjoy at all her piano lessons... And I like both its sounds and its keyboard better than the one of the Yamahas and the Korg that I saw in the store ! My son is delighted, me too, and I can't believe how lucky I was...
Now I can go and explore the other sections of this great forum !
Thanks again

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Excellent find!!!

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Originally Posted by SouthPark
Excellent find!!!

+1 !


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Nice!


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
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Hello,

@Zera, Lovely news, well done, well chosen!

Cheers and enjoy,

HZ

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Originally Posted by Zera
Hello to you all

Welcome!

Originally Posted by Zera
I have a son, 9 years old, who …. I need to buy something for him to practice. For now I have an old Yamaha psr200, so it should not be hard to find something better, that's for sure. However, I am on a tight budget (and I also don't have a lot of space) and I would like to avoid having to buy something new in two years (or even four years...). So I am trying to find something second hand,

Considering - your tight budget, lacking space, and want to avoid buying something new in two or four years - whether you buy new or used, and regardless of brand and model, it may well be a matter of luck as to how long your DP maintains it’s quality of life. Especially since you later ask about lifespan. Lifespan is a term that originates in the context of humans - on average, when do they die or decline to the point of having lost their quality of life? Even this varies workdwide by gender; women tend to live longer then men, but they roughly span into their late 70’s or 80’s. But, averages tend to be deceptive of reality. Some people die very young, others die very old. Across these extremes, there are no guarantees “warranties” both with used human life and used DPs. The best you can do is become informed as best you can prior to deciding on buying a new or used DP that fits your budget & space limitations within your preferred 2-4 years longevity span.

Originally Posted by Zera
Is an instrument that was good ten years ago still pretty decent now, or is the technology changing so fast that it is not the case ?

Any instrument that was good 10 years ago may or may not continue to be good in the now/present. Technology - specifically as applied to commercial appliances like DPs - is changing both fast in some aspects - like softwareand features/frills - and incrementally in other aspects - like hardware/actions/acoustics.


Originally Posted by Zera
Regarding the touch, I understand that it is a question of taste basically, but is there a technology that is better for learning ?

Touch, by way of a DP’s key action, for somebody like you & your son who are already familiar with or past the initial beginner’s-stage of learning piano, is generally agreed to be best served by an 88-key, graded-weight-hammer action. While there are widely-differing opinions on this question, this is generally agreed because real acoustic pianos - which have designs vastly different than computerized pianos, also include graded-weight hammer actions.


IMO, you have stated your requirements well and have already received good suggestions and advice in reply.

Best wishes for you and your child!

Last edited by drewr; 05/17/22 01:21 PM.

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