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Joined: Feb 2022
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Originally Posted by ChickenBrother
Originally Posted by ChickenBrother
New owner here. After months of waffling between the CLP 785 and N1X, I successfully upsold myself. Other than cost, my hesitation was based on two concerns: 1) Their key actions felt different but the N1X didn't feel "better" to me (I couldn't find a 785 in-stock anywhere so this is based on trying the N1X and the CVP 809 which shares the 785 key action), and 2) The N1X plastic button UI looks horrendous, despite the cabinet design being nicer IMO. Also of note, the 785 was out of stock everywhere with an indeterminate wait, while the N1X was coming into stock at several online dealers.

Having taken delivery last Thursday, I'm happy to report the first issue was without merit. As I had suspected, my initial preference for the CLP action was based on it being more similar to the P155 slab I'm used to playing, and the N1X at the dealer almost certainly being set to "hard." On medium setting, the N1X key action feels very smooth, expressive and perfect for me.

Re. the second issue, I still don't like the UI and the garish plastic buttons and white text on the panel continue to mock me while I play. Yamaha slapping this paleolithic UI on a DP at this price point is a head scratcher. I wish it at least slide out of view like on the N3X.

The only real issue I can report is the fallboard being very slightly out of alignment. If I open it fully before powering on, the red felt on the left side slightly depresses the three left-most black keys and this messes up the calibration so they rattle when played. The only work around I've found is to hold the fallboard slightly open as I power on before opening it fully.

But overall impression so far - this is a beautiful instrument and the key action and soundboard are immeasurably better than what I'm accustomed to. I feel privileged to sit in front of this elegant tank of a piano and everything I know feels new and more of a joy to play on it. Looking forward to many years of enjoyment as I learn new pieces and improve my technique.

Edit to the above, the misaligned fallboard has become enough of an issue that I have made a warranty service request for it. Another issue I noticed out of the box (I initially thought it was dust) is 10 of the black keys have physical damage nicks on the edges that are very visible in bright light and can be felt when running a finger over them. Neither are catastrophic issues but both are disappointing and unacceptable in a new piano. Having just discussed with The Piano Guys Piano Store rep, they agree these should be covered under warranty and said a tech should be contacting me directly.

I'll update this thread with the experience and the outcome when this is revolved.


https://imgur.com/a/IkybXiI

Update to the above - I hadn't heard from anyone for a week after I reported and discussed the issue with the dealer, so I called them today to inquire. They confirmed they have been coordinating with Yamaha re. technician availability (apparently there is also a waiting list on technicians now), but I should be hearing from someone in the next week or so. He said they believe the fallboard issue should be a quick fix with just adjusting some screws, but the damaged keys issue will require them to remove those keys and take them away for a few days. Apparently this kind of repair requires them to fill the nicks with key resin and buff them out after it dries, which takes a few days.



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Originally Posted by Marc345
Any NV10/AvantGrand/Lachnit MK owners ever checked the MIDI velocity consistency across keys and compared that to some contact rubber based product?

I'd be highly interested in the results. (I have a Win64-VST plugin that displays velocity delta for simultaneously pressed keys - just tell me if interested, for Mac you'd have to compile it yourself)

One method could be to press two adjacent (white) keys with two fingers acting as a single entity. I'm not sure how reliable that method is, but it should still be useful if it turns out that the method produces better results on optical sensor devices.

BTW: is there any research that has looked at this, esp. at how reliable contact rubber-based systems are in practice? My first personal experiences/measurements show pretty stark deviations on the order of +/- 8...12 velocity steps.

I've profiled the MIDI velocity for a Kawai CS11, which is a contact rubber based product. The resulting charts are here. I've posted details on how the data was collected and compiled here.

I'd be very interested in seeing comparable data for the N1X, since that is my planned upgrade. If you can collect the midi data, I'd be happy to process it into graphs.

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Originally Posted by Gravitino
I'd be very interested in seeing comparable data for the N1X, since that is my planned upgrade. If you can collect the midi data, I'd be happy to process it into graphs.

Here's a profile of the N3X.

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Hi all. Slightly tangential question but I thought this may be the best place to start, since the AvantGrands seem to be the closest sister technology.

Anyone have any idea what the sound engine is in a Yamaha Enspire Pro? It has a binaural CFX but I don't know if it's the same as in the P515, N1X or any other variant Yamaha makes. One thing I've noticed is that there seems to be a *very* strong resonance ring in any 4th interval across the whole tenor/treble range. Stronger than 5ths, or even octaves. I'll try another set of headphones to check (currently using Sennheiser HD-598s), but am curious whether this is something that others have noticed in recent Yamahas.

I've not been in a situation before where I've bought a piano without any idea at all about the major features of the sound engine, but I have to admit I know less than bupkis about the Enspire!


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro, Kawai NV-10
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11
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Originally Posted by ChickenBrother
Originally Posted by ChickenBrother
Originally Posted by ChickenBrother
New owner here. After months of waffling between the CLP 785 and N1X, I successfully upsold myself. Other than cost, my hesitation was based on two concerns: 1) Their key actions felt different but the N1X didn't feel "better" to me (I couldn't find a 785 in-stock anywhere so this is based on trying the N1X and the CVP 809 which shares the 785 key action), and 2) The N1X plastic button UI looks horrendous, despite the cabinet design being nicer IMO. Also of note, the 785 was out of stock everywhere with an indeterminate wait, while the N1X was coming into stock at several online dealers.

Having taken delivery last Thursday, I'm happy to report the first issue was without merit. As I had suspected, my initial preference for the CLP action was based on it being more similar to the P155 slab I'm used to playing, and the N1X at the dealer almost certainly being set to "hard." On medium setting, the N1X key action feels very smooth, expressive and perfect for me.

Re. the second issue, I still don't like the UI and the garish plastic buttons and white text on the panel continue to mock me while I play. Yamaha slapping this paleolithic UI on a DP at this price point is a head scratcher. I wish it at least slide out of view like on the N3X.

The only real issue I can report is the fallboard being very slightly out of alignment. If I open it fully before powering on, the red felt on the left side slightly depresses the three left-most black keys and this messes up the calibration so they rattle when played. The only work around I've found is to hold the fallboard slightly open as I power on before opening it fully.

But overall impression so far - this is a beautiful instrument and the key action and soundboard are immeasurably better than what I'm accustomed to. I feel privileged to sit in front of this elegant tank of a piano and everything I know feels new and more of a joy to play on it. Looking forward to many years of enjoyment as I learn new pieces and improve my technique.

Edit to the above, the misaligned fallboard has become enough of an issue that I have made a warranty service request for it. Another issue I noticed out of the box (I initially thought it was dust) is 10 of the black keys have physical damage nicks on the edges that are very visible in bright light and can be felt when running a finger over them. Neither are catastrophic issues but both are disappointing and unacceptable in a new piano. Having just discussed with The Piano Guys Piano Store rep, they agree these should be covered under warranty and said a tech should be contacting me directly.

I'll update this thread with the experience and the outcome when this is revolved.


https://imgur.com/a/IkybXiI

Update to the above - I hadn't heard from anyone for a week after I reported and discussed the issue with the dealer, so I called them today to inquire. They confirmed they have been coordinating with Yamaha re. technician availability (apparently there is also a waiting list on technicians now), but I should be hearing from someone in the next week or so. He said they believe the fallboard issue should be a quick fix with just adjusting some screws, but the damaged keys issue will require them to remove those keys and take them away for a few days. Apparently this kind of repair requires them to fill the nicks with key resin and buff them out after it dries, which takes a few days.

Update to my N1X warranty issue. After a month of waiting for a call back to schedule a technician (most serviced either acoustics or digitals but not hybrids), The Piano Guys (dealer) called and said out of appreciation for my patience, they could ship me a brand new N1X in lieu of repair. They said they would pay for shipment, unboxing and clean up, packing the old N1X and taking it back. I was pretty gobsmacked. Sounded nice in theory but I thought of the hassle scheduling the first delivery (got postponed twice), unboxing and getting it set up being a PITA. I like my N1X and the nicks on the keys and the fallboard issue are frustrating but livable. In lieu of a trade out, I requested and they approved a cash settlement to waive warranty service for the fallboard and accept the scratched keys. I'm happy with the outcome. Essentially I have a perfectly functioning N1X with minor cosmetic damage that I got for a reasonable discount. I've also since removed the fallboard myself, removed and manually straightened the brackets which has improved the alignment. It's still not completely straight but no longer touches the backs of the black keys when open.

Overall I give The Piano Guys high marks for their post-purchase customer service. Their service rep Taylor was very responsive and reasonable to deal with.



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A dealer has one in stock here. Can you guys cross your fingers, do a rain dance, and say a prayer that I’m able to get it. Thinking of upgrading my 785 to it. It’d be an absolute dream!!!

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Originally Posted by Taushi
A dealer has one in stock here. Can you guys cross your fingers, do a rain dance, and say a prayer that I’m able to get it. Thinking of upgrading my 785 to it. It’d be an absolute dream!!!

We've actually had rain here during an otherwise worrisome drought, so if it is your dream: go get it pal!

🙂

Cheers and a happy Gotcha!

HZ

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Originally Posted by ChickenBrother
Overall I give The Piano Guys high marks for their post-purchase customer service. Their service rep Taylor was very responsive and reasonable to deal with.

We always hope that the piano we get is 100% perfect without issues. But when issues do arise, I think the next best thing would be customer service like this.


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro, Kawai NV-10
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11
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