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#3204175 03/26/22 03:09 PM
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LELES Offline OP
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I know that are models with different proposals, but as for sound quality, you think the es920 sounds much better than mp7es, since it had some improvement as new chip, motherboard and collaboration of onkyo.

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LELES Offline OP
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nobody interested?

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Nobody has first hand experience.
Those who bought an ES920 don't have an MP7SE or MP11SE. If you go to a store, they'll quite often have the ES920 but no MP unit. Those stores that have both are the big ones eg Bonners near London might have.

All we have to go on are youtube videos, and that's not ideal, as there is no playing experience watching a video.


Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
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https://www.kawai-global.com/product_comparison/detail.php?n=es920,es8,mp7se&ct=36

> collaboration of onkyo

This regards the built-in speakers.

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LELES Offline OP
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Unfortunately in this technical comparison you can't make any difference. I thought I might have someone here on the forum who had tried both instruments side by side to give an opinion of what they found in we have a difference in sound quality.

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Well the technical comparison doesn't show much difference - cabinet resonance and a few more piano voices I recall. You can try asking Kawai James for details. Or you can try googling for differences between the ES920 and the ES8 sound engine. I'd assume these are minor. Generally I subjectively prefer Kawai sound to Roland and Yamaha and the ES8 sounded nice to me - though they all lag behind better VSTs (that run on better hardware and have much larger sample base).

Obviously the ES920 has built-in speakers, which you shouldn't expect to be anywhere near perfection, despite the Onkyo improvement. The MP7SE has sound effects.

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Originally Posted by LELES
I know that are models with different proposals, but as for sound quality, you think the es920 sounds much better than mp7es, since it had some improvement as new chip, motherboard and collaboration of onkyo.

There isn't a noticeable difference.

The youtube videos are 99.99% good enough for you to get an idea of how they differ. The improved action means the issue with the early release of the RH-III action is resolved.

MP7SE doesn't have speakers and ONKYO made hardware is irrelevant in this case.


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I don't get the importance to know how the sound compares. 920 better suited for home, solo gigs whereas mp7es is a stage keyboard with zones, midi implementation, no internal speakers.


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in our store they sound different with the default settings.
perhaps they sound equal if you eq the es920.


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Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by LELES
I know that are models with different proposals, but as for sound quality, you think the es920 sounds much better than mp7es, since it had some improvement as new chip, motherboard and collaboration of onkyo.

There isn't a noticeable difference.

The youtube videos are 99.99% good enough for you to get an idea of how they differ. The improved action means the issue with the early release of the RH-III action is resolved.

MP7SE doesn't have speakers and ONKYO made hardware is irrelevant in this case.

The difference between the two is shown directly here.
If you can hear a great difference, then there is your answer.



What really matters is the quality of the source audio. I believe some aspects of the new motherboard /chip would produce a better sound through external monitors too. The question of how much difference hasn't been addressed by reviews comparing ES920 and MP7SE.

Last edited by Doug M.; 03/28/22 05:10 PM.

Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
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LELES Offline OP
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Originally Posted by klausi6
in our store they sound different with the default settings.
perhaps they sound equal if you eq the es920.

In my case it matters, Because I was going to buy an MP7es, because I prefer the functionality of it and the fact of having more voices but when I compared the audio samples available audio on kawai's website I found that the Es920 It does make much better. The dick i think about being with him. But I'm quite inclined to wait for the release of the MP8 that would have improved sound and stage piano features. It remains to be seen when this launch will be...

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Hi Leles,

For your information Kawai have already produced an MP8, an MP8ii, an MP10, an MP11 and MP11se! The MP9 designation is absent so maybe that will actually be used for the MP7se's eventual successor, who knows?

Incidently, both instruments share the same keyboard action and the same sound engine generator so should sound the same if setup the same way either through headphones or the same separate external amplification and speakers. The fundamental difference would appear to be whether you want the increased versatility and better build quality of the MP7se or the convenience of the built-in amplification and speakers of the ES920. They are intended to serve the needs of different users and their respective use cases.

Although Onkyo are a respected Hi-Fi manufacturer I understand that their involvement is limited to the onboard amplification and speaker system and not the sound engine generator itself which is all Kawai's design and manufacture.

See the following link from Kawai's Global website for the specification comparison between both models:
https://www.kawai-global.com/product_comparison/detail.php?n=es920,mp7se&ct=36

Kind regards,

Tog


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Originally Posted by Tog
Hi Leles,

For your information Kawai have already produced an MP8, an MP8ii, an MP10, an MP11 and MP11se! The MP9 designation is absent so maybe that will actually be used for the MP7se's eventual successor, who knows?

Incidently, both instruments share the same keyboard action and the same sound engine generator so should sound the same if setup the same way either through headphones or the same separate external amplification and speakers. The fundamental difference would appear to be whether you want the increased versatility and better build quality of the MP7se or the convenience of the built-in amplification and speakers of the ES920. They are intended to serve the needs of different users and their respective use cases.

Although Onkyo are a respected Hi-Fi manufacturer I understand that their involvement is limited to the onboard amplification and speaker system and not the sound engine generator itself which is all Kawai's design and manufacture.

See the following link from Kawai's Global website for the specification comparison between both models:
https://www.kawai-global.com/product_comparison/detail.php?n=es920,mp7se&ct=36

Kind regards,

Tog


Look what the site says about the s920: Premium audio technologies, Powered by Onkyo
Developed in collaboration with Onkyo, one of Japan's leading manufacturers of premium audio equipment, the ES920 features a redesigned motherboard, amplifier and audio delivery system. These premium components combine to deliver the best-in-class audio quality, producing extremely rich, clear sound with minimal distortion.

What I feel is exactly what the mp7es have more distortion. In exaggerated terms and as if the mp7es were a tape and the s920 a CD.

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Originally Posted by Tog
Incidently, both instruments share the same keyboard action and the same sound engine generator so should sound the same if setup the same way either through headphones or the same separate external amplification and speakers. The fundamental difference would appear to be whether you want the increased versatility and better build quality of the MP7se or the convenience of the built-in amplification and speakers of the ES920. They are intended to serve the needs of different users and their respective use cases.

See the following link from Kawai's Global website for the specification comparison between both models:
https://www.kawai-global.com/product_comparison/detail.php?n=es920,mp7se&ct=36

Kind regards,

Tog


Concerning headphones, I am not sure if they sound the same.
If you look at the specifications of headphone (the link you provided) you can see that the es920 has "Spatial Headphone Sound Headphone Type" and the Mp7SE does not.
Is this a huge difference, I can't tell.

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Originally Posted by playplayplay
Originally Posted by Tog
Incidently, both instruments share the same keyboard action and the same sound engine generator so should sound the same if setup the same way either through headphones or the same separate external amplification and speakers. The fundamental difference would appear to be whether you want the increased versatility and better build quality of the MP7se or the convenience of the built-in amplification and speakers of the ES920. They are intended to serve the needs of different users and their respective use cases.

See the following link from Kawai's Global website for the specification comparison between both models:
https://www.kawai-global.com/product_comparison/detail.php?n=es920,mp7se&ct=36

Kind regards,

Tog


Concerning headphones, I am not sure if they sound the same.
If you look at the specifications of headphone (the link you provided) you can see that the es920 has "Spatial Headphone Sound Headphone Type" and the Mp7SE does not.
Is this a huge difference, I can't tell.

As there are changes to the chip and motherboard, the audio output might well be different. Speculation doesn't help answer the question. Till someone tests them side-by-side, we have no way to answer these questions.

Certainly if Kawai have included some sort of Binaural equivalent and called it 'Spatial ..' blah blah, then the headphone experience must be different. However, stage pianos have a different purpose. Even if Kawai do release an MP7TE or MP9 containing the Spatial blah thingy, in theory, you're buying it for stage purposes, where it won't be useful. If you want Binaural sound on the MP7SE, you can add a VST that supports it.

At any rate, it could be years away. I mean I think it's likely to be years. If you need an instrument, get the MP7SE because you won't be disappointed. If money is an issue, buy a used one and then if later in the decade, a new instrument comes out, you can always flip the MP7SE to fund a new purchase.


Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
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Following upon DougM, +1 to his advice.

My HP508 has Roland’s spatial-like blah blah headphone feature and the effect is noticeably different than what i hear from its onboard speaker system.

As far as i know, my MP7 headphone jack does not provide any blah blah sound effects feature, but i now realize ive never really analyzed this much. This is because ive only ever used the phones jack to monitor my playing/the sound output rather than listening for any type of dressed-up effects.

Last edited by drewr; 03/29/22 01:27 PM.

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Originally Posted by _sem_
Well the technical comparison doesn't show much difference - cabinet resonance and a few more piano voices I recall. You can try asking Kawai James for details. Or you can try googling for differences between the ES920 and the ES8 sound engine. I'd assume these are minor. Generally I subjectively prefer Kawai sound to Roland and Yamaha and the ES8 sounded nice to me - though they all lag behind better VSTs (that run on better hardware and have much larger sample base).

Obviously the ES920 has built-in speakers, which you shouldn't expect to be anywhere near perfection, despite the Onkyo improvement. The MP7SE has sound effects.

I tried to send private message to James kawai, but the forum for some reason did not allow me. Could someone send a message indicating this topic to him?

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Originally Posted by LELES
I tried to send private message to James kawai, but the forum for some reason did not allow me. Could someone send a message indicating this topic to him?


It won't sound "much better". Samples are samples. You can't make a sample sound completely different using DSPs. Since the sample is a static entity, it will preserve its key features.

The functionality of these two instruments is completely different. You can't do things you do with MP7SE with 920 and some of the 920 features aren't available in MP7SE.

Note that the youtube video posted here isn't recorded through the outputs, it has been recorded using microphones... that's why you hear the difference. Connect them to PAs or monitor speakers, and then listen to how different they are.


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Originally Posted by LELES
I tried to send private message to James kawai, but the forum for some reason did not allow me.

I'm afraid I don't know why this is - I'm not over the allocated message quota.

Regarding the main query, the ES920 uses updated hardware, software, and samples, therefore I would exect it the overall tonal quality to be superior to MP7SE. However, the MP7SE offers a much broader range of features, while still providing high quality sound.

I would advise customers to select the instrument that matches their requirements most closely. For some, this will be the ES920, for others it will be the MP7SE - either way, they're both great instruments.

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
[quote=LELES]

I would advise customers to select the instrument that matches their requirements most closely. For some, this will be the ES920, for others it will be the MP7SE - either way, they're both great instruments.

Kind regards,
James
x

To elaborate on what KJ says above...buyers need to find out you get with a stage piano versus the portable piano and ask:

1) What is my budget; am I a bit flexible; or, am I willing/able to go used?

2) What options (new or used) does my budget suggest I should consider?

3) What are my need to haves?
*What attributes do I want my piano to have
e.g., piano action
*What performance 'level' do I want the attributes to be?
e.g., a) non-weighted; b) non-weighted waterfall; c) semi-weighted ungraded; d) semi-weighted/graded; e) fully weighted/graded hammer action

---You can make an Attributes and Levels grid which can help you compare instruments.

4) What are my good to haves? ----i.e., something you'd use frequently but could do without

5) What are my nice to haves? ----i.e., someting you'd hardly ever use but like to be able to use.

Then it's a case of considering how important are the good and nice to haves, and just make a determination of which you want based upon a good evaluation of your real needs.


With piano sound quality, there are flexible options to increase your access to other piano sounds:
E.g.,
1) Buy a sound module with high quality piano samples e.g., the Dexibel Vivo SX-8
2) Buy a multi-gigabyte VST(Garritan CFX grand; VSL CONCERT D-274 ) or modelled VST (Pianoteq) and use your PC/Laptop and/or external audio-interface to provide the sound (controlled via the piano).

******This is one option that works quite well for users mulling the MP7SE but are worried that the sound might feel dated a decade from now: with a good VST and fine external monitors, it will no doubt sound very competitive still.


Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
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