2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
68 members (Bob17821, Azalingchan, AJB, accordeur, BMKE, Animisha, beeboss, 16 invisible), 1,018 guests, and 292 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,176

Unobtanium Supporter until Jun 020 2020
3000 Post Club Member
Offline

Unobtanium Supporter until Jun 020 2020
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,176
I owned two "plain vanilla" Steingraebers -- the C-212 (7 foot) and D-232 (7 foot 7 inches). Both were spectacular, especially the D-232.


[Linked Image]

"One has to accept that to be human is to be fallible, and then do the best one can and be captured by the music."

-- Gyorgy Sebok
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
W
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
Originally Posted by ClsscLib
I owned two "plain vanilla" Steingraebers -- the C-212 (7 foot) and D-232 (7 foot 7 inches). Both were spectacular, especially the D-232.

That's why I would be interested in your comparisons with Fazioli and Bosensdorfer. To be specific, though facile, how would you rate them for clarity and resonance?

Last edited by Withindale; 03/04/22 03:56 AM.

Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,362
J
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,362
I first played a Steingraeber in 1998 and have done several times since then. They are extraordinary pianos with a distinct voice, and the highest level of craftsmanship.

Introducing a moderator onto a piano isn’t really innovative but I like some of the other things. The Mozart rail is a nice idea, this concept was actually introduced to them by Richard Dain who’d been doing it on his own Bösendorfers for quite some time. Fazioli pianos have a similar but not identical thing with their fourth pedal except while the Fazioli pedal lifts the hammers closer to the string, it doesn’t alter the touch depth.

The coloured damper heads are a good idea, and the lighter more reflective lid is a nice innovation too. Other makers do have some similar ideas so we will see how it catches on over time. Nice pianos regardless of these innovations.


YAMAHA Artist
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,344
D
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,344
Originally Posted by Joseph Fleetwood
Introducing a moderator onto a piano isn’t really innovative but I like some of the other things.

Just got back from a concert at the Wigmore Hall - Sir Andras Schiff playing Haydn on a fortepiano (McNulty copy of a Walter). Hearing Schiff's subtle use of the moderator has been a revelation.

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 68
V
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 68
Possibly some of us is interested in the article:
https://www.pianistmagazine.com/new...sed-as-one-of-the-brands-of-the-century/
The virtual tour on Steingraber website is also a nice exploration
https://www.steingraeber.de/en/about-us/virtual-tour/


Every day is a gift
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,176

Unobtanium Supporter until Jun 020 2020
3000 Post Club Member
Offline

Unobtanium Supporter until Jun 020 2020
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,176
Originally Posted by Withindale
Originally Posted by ClsscLib
I owned two "plain vanilla" Steingraebers -- the C-212 (7 foot) and D-232 (7 foot 7 inches). Both were spectacular, especially the D-232.

That's why I would be interested in your comparisons with Fazioli and Bosensdorfer. To be specific, though facile, how would you rate them for clarity and resonance?

Honestly, my observations about Bosendorfer and Fazioli aren't worth the pixels. Early in my search for the first acoustic piano, I played nearly everything on the market, and my choice boiled down to pianos by Fazioli, Grotrian, and Steingraeber. I loved the clarity of the Steingraeber sound, especially the clarity of the top two octaves, and -- especially in the D-232 -- the beautifully dark richness of the lower register.

Fazioli makes an amazing piano, and perhaps the action is to be preferred over anything else now available. I've loved listening to the tone color of some Bosendorfers I've heard.

I moved on to a Steinway Hamburg/Astoria "hybrid" rebuild a few years ago because I loved (and still love) that particular piano, for which I had to trade in my D-232. But there were qualities of that wonderful Steingraeber that I've never heard in any other piano.


[Linked Image]

"One has to accept that to be human is to be fallible, and then do the best one can and be captured by the music."

-- Gyorgy Sebok
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,559
K
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,559
Here is a nice demonstration of both the Mozart rail and the sordino on a Steingraeber concert grand. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...zart-rail-demonstration.html#Post3199653


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com/ and www.vimeo.com/203188875
www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
W
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
Originally Posted by ClsscLib
Originally Posted by Withindale
Originally Posted by ClsscLib
I owned two "plain vanilla" Steingraebers -- the C-212 (7 foot) and D-232 (7 foot 7 inches). Both were spectacular, especially the D-232.

That's why I would be interested in your comparisons with Fazioli and Bosensdorfer. To be specific, though facile, how would you rate them for clarity and resonance?

Honestly, my observations about Bosendorfer and Fazioli aren't worth the pixels. Early in my search for the first acoustic piano, I played nearly everything on the market, and my choice boiled down to pianos by Fazioli, Grotrian, and Steingraeber. I loved the clarity of the Steingraeber sound, especially the clarity of the top two octaves, and -- especially in the D-232 -- the beautifully dark richness of the lower register.

Never mind Bosendorfer and Fazioli, you have put your finger on precisely the two points I had in mind.

As you may know Richard Dain puts thin soundboards into the Steingraeber bodies of his Phoenix pianos at Hurstwood Farm in Kent. He had two ten year old E-272s side by side there last autumn, one had a spruce soundboard the other carbon fibre. The sound of both was as you describe. Richard has always had Uwe Steingraeber modify the bodies he supplies. I suspect one or two of the mods made their way into your D-232.

About your switch to a Steinway. Some years ago Jürg Hanselmann put recordings on YouTube of his Romance on a Steingraeber and on a Steinway. When I asked him which he preferred, he said it depended on his mood or the weather.

Gombessa, the OP, is off to try Faziolis, Bosendorfers and Steingraebers. Let's see if the final choice is one of each.

Last edited by Withindale; 03/08/22 07:06 PM.

Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,889
G
6000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,889
Originally Posted by Withindale
Gombessa, the OP, is off to try Faziolis, Bosendorfers and Steingraebers. Let's see if the final choice is one of each.

If I choose one piano, chances are I can move it into our home. If I choose three, I'll probably have to fit all of them into a studio apartment.... shocked


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV-10
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 60
Y
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Y
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 60
One thing I find amazing is the "relative youth" of the Steingraeber brand, meaning they went from an almost invisible firm in the 80's/90's to constantly being in the top 5 or top 10 of modern manufacturers. You would almost believe they've been one of the top dogs for decades judging by their reputation.

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,028
W
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,028
Youth is indeed relative, Yojimbo. Steingraeber has been around since 1852, and havebuilt only about 40,000 piano in all that time. I don't think they began being known in the U. S. until the early 2000's. I had never heard of them before I saw their pianos at the NAMM show in 2000 in Anaheim. I was hugely impressed with the tone and quality of the instrument.

I like your moniker, Yojimbo. You must be a Kurosawa fan. (Me too). Great film, and a great cast - Toshiro Mifune, Isuzu Yamada, Takashi Shimura, Tatsuya Nakadai, and others


fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,889
G
6000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,889
I actually heard about Phoenix Piano before I heard about Steingraeber (due to press about their carbon fiber soundboard). And as I kind of expect a music student plopped in front of a piano that doesn't have "Steinway" "Baldwin" or "Yamaha" on the fallboard, the name just completely glossed me by. I probably assumed it was some Chinese stencil brand trying its best to capitalize on sounding like "Steinway and Sons." I'll be honest, I only really learned about them at the beginning of this year when I started getting serious about shopping for an acoustic. So I totally believe that they are still generally unknown in a lot of markets.


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV-10
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 60
Y
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Y
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by WilliamTruitt
Youth is indeed relative, Yojimbo. Steingraeber has been around since 1852, and havebuilt only about 40,000 piano in all that time. I don't think they began being known in the U. S. until the early 2000's. I had never heard of them before I saw their pianos at the NAMM show in 2000 in Anaheim. I was hugely impressed with the tone and quality of the instrument.

I like your moniker, Yojimbo. You must be a Kurosawa fan. (Me too). Great film, and a great cast - Toshiro Mifune, Isuzu Yamada, Takashi Shimura, Tatsuya Nakadai, and others

That I am, a Kurosawa fan. But the name I took mostly because of fond memories playing Final Fantasy X.

Originally Posted by Gombessa
I actually heard about Phoenix Piano before I heard about Steingraeber (due to press about their carbon fiber soundboard). And as I kind of expect a music student plopped in front of a piano that doesn't have "Steinway" "Baldwin" or "Yamaha" on the fallboard, the name just completely glossed me by. I probably assumed it was some Chinese stencil brand trying its best to capitalize on sounding like "Steinway and Sons." I'll be honest, I only really learned about them at the beginning of this year when I started getting serious about shopping for an acoustic. So I totally believe that they are still generally unknown in a lot of markets.

I'm sure Steingraeber is still a small name relative to S&S and Yamaha and many others. But I'm amazed at their fame and reputation in relation to how few pianos they have actually made, and how short a time they have sat in the top markets, especially the concert grand market. I hear more people talk about them than say, Grotrian or Seiler, who were two of the biggest german manufacturers during the 70's-90's.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
W
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
The answer to Yojimbo's question is somewhere in this year by year history of Steingraber: https://www.steingraeber.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/History-of-the-manufacturers-ENG-2020.pdf

Quote
I loved the clarity of the Steingraeber sound, especially the clarity of the top two octaves, and the beautifully dark richness of the lower register.

Here are Jürg Hanselmann's recording of his romance I mentioned yesterday:

STEINGRAEBER E-272


STEINWAY D-274


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,176

Unobtanium Supporter until Jun 020 2020
3000 Post Club Member
Offline

Unobtanium Supporter until Jun 020 2020
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,176
When I was growing up in Chicago many decades ago, the top venues offered nine-foot pianos by Steinway, Baldwin, and Boesendorfer. I wonder what’s packed in those lockers now?


[Linked Image]

"One has to accept that to be human is to be fallible, and then do the best one can and be captured by the music."

-- Gyorgy Sebok
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,889
G
6000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,889
Originally Posted by ClsscLib
When I was growing up in Chicago many decades ago, the top venues offered nine-foot pianos by Steinway, Baldwin, and Boesendorfer. I wonder what’s packed in those lockers now?

I feel like there is more variety now in performance worthy 9ft+ concert grands than ever before (or is it that the players just change over time)?


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV-10
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 647
T
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 647
Originally Posted by Withindale
The answer to Yojimbo's question is somewhere in this year by year history of Steingraber: https://www.steingraeber.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/History-of-the-manufacturers-ENG-2020.pdf

Thanks very much for this.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 51
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 51
Ian,

Thank you for posting the videos. A lovely piece and performances. I understand the comments about the clarity in the upper octaves of the Steingraeber. Beautifully pure and clean without sounding hollow or thin.

There is a warm familiarity to the Steinway sound which is almost comforting in its own way. That said, from these examples, my preference would be Steingraeber. I hope to experience one in person someday.


First love: August Förster 215

Practicing: Chopin Préludes No. 5, 9
Bach Invention No. 4, 14
Debussy Deux Arabesques No. 2
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,141
N
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,141
Lovely performances by Herr Hanselmann. I found the bass on the Steingraeber more immediate and better balanced than the Steinway bass. The treble on the Steingraeber, on the other hand, could have been brighter. Given how Hanselmann in each bar was able to bring out the right hand melody against a subdued ornamentation (1-2-5 fingering, or 1-3-5), on either of the instruments, it appears the actions are about the same. On the whole, the sound was very similar between these instruments, but the Steingraeber has a slight advantage. I would have a very hard time deciding between the two without playing a lot of other repertoire.


Fazioli 228.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 287
Z
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Z
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 287
Originally Posted by VinV
The virtual tour on Steingraber website is also a nice exploration
https://www.steingraeber.de/en/about-us/virtual-tour/

Yes, and they offer factory tours on the first Thursday of every month. Now that the corona situation is improving (at least the rules are being relaxed), I will stop by there in the foreseeable future. A good hour's drive from where I am. Just have to find out whether you have to register in advance (which I suspect). I’m very excited. smile

Last edited by zeitlos; 03/11/22 01:11 PM.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Music theory - Key identification
by Animisha - 07/06/22 11:21 AM
Yamaha P-125 String Resonance
by Petzold - 07/06/22 09:50 AM
Piano saver system? does everyone use this?
by NJ_Piano_Mom - 07/06/22 09:00 AM
Future-proof-ness of a silent acoustic grand
by Falsch - 07/06/22 08:03 AM
Haessler
by PianistEsq - 07/06/22 12:05 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics213,828
Posts3,205,844
Members105,735
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5