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Hi,

I'm mostly happy with where I've gotten with the piece given my not very advance level but there is one bit where I really struggle:
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/McoFCGcVXZp6MPAp9[/img]

Here's how I play it currently:



I don't really know how to approach this... is my fingering idea bad? I tried a couple of different things but all in all this is still the least bad one I could come up with.

How did you solve that bit if you played the piece?

I guess I could set the piece as a whole aside for a while, move on to sth else and keep practicing this bit until I'm ready...


Thanks!

Last edited by Keybender; 01/28/22 08:13 AM.
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Starting from the bottom Gb I prefer : 31212345 . It took 1,5 minutes to learn.

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oops I got the link all wrong: https://photos.app.goo.gl/VysgDoEBqeA4sk9y7

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I struggle most with the middle bit where I have to change direction, this just doesn't feel right.

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Originally Posted by Keybender
Hi,

I'm mostly happy with where I've gotten with the piece given my not very advance level but there is one bit where I really struggle:
I don't really know how to approach this... is my fingering idea bad? I tried a couple of different things but all in all this is still the least bad one I could come up with.

How did you solve that bit if you played the piece?

I guess I could set the piece as a whole aside for a while, move on to something else and keep practicing this bit until I'm ready...


Thanks!
If you like the piece, you certainly don't have to set it aside if only this one spot is a headache, Did you try looking at the different fingering suggestions by ten plus different editors on IMSLP?
https://imslp.org/wiki/Nocturnes%2C_Op.37_(Chopin%2C_Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric)

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/28/22 10:54 AM.
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You are doing quite well already. The run is not very fast, so your current fingering might work. Still, since I have recorded this piece for the IMSLP (and missed one note in that run), I would like to throw in my five cents. I play 3-2-1-3-2-1-3-2-1-3-1-2-3-4-3-4-5. For me, the part from the bottom works better with that fingering than 1-2-1-2-3-4-5, though the latter is more elegant.

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Originally Posted by Keybender
I struggle most with the middle bit where I have to change direction, this just doesn't feel right.
It's the reason why it's better to use 1st finger on the bottom E, you may push a little bit from that E with the thumb and gain momentum for an up run, some teachers recommend to imagine a small catapult on the bottom note (E). Besides, 1st finger makes a little accent on that E which I think is required here. This is hardly possible when you use second finger on E, the turn becomes more clumsy and no accent is made.

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Your fingering looks fine to me. But the one provided is also good. I would play with 2 on the G flat and 1 on E with 1212345.


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Originally Posted by Pianist685
You are doing quite well already. The run is not very fast, so your current fingering might work. Still, since I have recorded this piece for the IMSLP (and missed one note in that run), I would like to throw in my five cents. I play 3-2-1-3-2-1-3-2-1-3-1-2-3-4-3-4-5. For me, the part from the bottom works better with that fingering than 1-2-1-2-3-4-5, though the latter is more elegant.
I recommend something similar.
from the held a: 4..-3-2-1-3-2-1-3-2-1-3or2-1-2-3-1-2-3-5 on the D


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I have used this fingering, beginning on the A

544(I slide my 4th finger from the G# to the G)3213(on the Eb) 213(on the Gb)231(G) and then 2345.

Ultimately, you need to find the right fingering for your hand. But if you’re having an issue with fluidity, looking for alternative fingerings is the way to go.



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Originally Posted by Pianist685
I play 3-2-1-3-2-1-3-2-1-3-1-2-3-4-3-4-5. For me, the part from the bottom works better with that fingering than 1-2-1-2-3-4-5, though the latter is more elegant.
1. The sequences 5-4-3-2-1-4-3-2-1 (2 patterns according to Busoni) will always be easily played faster than 3-2-1-3-2-1-3- 2-1 (3 patterns according to Busoni) , although there are volume limits for it.
2. Both 3-1-2-3-4-3-4-5 and 3-1-2-1-2-3-4-5 have a similar inconvenience: in the first version, the 4th finger is immediately repeated, which slows down very much, in the second - the thumb, which is much more natural for my hand (and many other hands) .

All this from the point of view of my hands.

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So... I tried many of the variations and for me there's not really one better than the other - but at least all that trying did make me play it better now smile thanks

I really liked the idea of sliding the 4th ininitally, this sets everything up for smaller movements which is nice even though not obviously more effective

Last edited by Keybender; 02/08/22 09:06 AM.
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Originally Posted by Keybender
So... I tried many of the variations and for me there's not really one better than the other - but at least all that trying did make me play it better now smile thanks
Comfortable fingering is only part of the story; the other part is the right strategy; but no one has talked about it here yet. The right strategy can beat bad fingering (though undesirable).
Each shift of the thumb on the keyboard changes position, hence the passage contains 5 positions and 5 finger patterns. Each finger pattern leads to a corresponding motoric pattern which needs to be worked on IN ISOLATED FIRST! For instance :

54321 pause 54321 pause 54321 pause, etc.
Includes 2 types of movements - rotational in the forearm and parabolic in the elbow.
Further :
4321 pauses 4321 pauses 4321 pauses, etc. - with similar movements.
312 pause 312 pause 312 pause, etc.
12345 pause 12345 pause 12345 pause, etc.
This is the primary work on elementary movements. The next stage is a flexible transition from one pattern to another, which creates a kind of unifying movement that synthesizes both movement patterns in itself. PATIENCE!!!

Last edited by Nahum; 02/08/22 12:03 PM.

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