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#3188922 01/27/22 05:50 AM
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The musical term: "broader" - what does it mean? Slower? And if it means slower, is there any difference between broader and slower? Is it English for rallentando? confused


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Animisha #3188927 01/27/22 06:04 AM
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Not a native English speaker, but my interpretation would be: slightly slower, slightly louder, and very legato.


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Animisha #3188953 01/27/22 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Animisha
The musical term: "broader" - what does it mean? Slower? And if it means slower, is there any difference between broader and slower? Is it English for rallentando? confused

I have never seen "broader" in classical music. Can you tell where it is coming from ? It may be a native term but also quite possibly a translation from Italian, German, French, ...... Most classical english composers use italien terms in their scores.

For example it is the usual translation for german "langsam" which in effect means to play the section with a broad tempo i.e rather slow (something like largo or larghetto). It is different from rallentendo which means you have to progressively slow down. "Broader" means you apply a slow tempo from the start. I have also never seen slower in classical music. For me the difference is that slower means exactly that: you play the section more slowly but it does not say how slow.


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Animisha #3188964 01/27/22 10:08 AM
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Here is an internet definition of broader

The term "Broadly" indicates a slow tempo with full length notes (little or no space between the notes), and with the emphasis given to the entire phrase rather than individual notes or small groups of notes.


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dogperson #3188971 01/27/22 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Here is an internet definition of broader

The term "Broadly" indicates a slow tempo with full length notes (little or no space between the notes), and with the emphasis given to the entire phrase rather than individual notes or small groups of notes.
That's how I would interpret the term "boadly" though I'm not sure I ever saw "broader" in any score. Maybe it's a translation of the Italian "piu largo" which literally means "more broadly".

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Consider the song The Way We Were, which I have here on page 14 of the Reader's Digest Festival of Popular Songs.

Right after the crescendo in the middle "Would we? Could we?", we get to "Mem'ries may be beautiful and yet" and right at that point the score says "Broadly".

When you think about the way that song is sung, it shows how broadly is used. The "Would we could we is" is tentative and sorrowful, and right after that we rally and carry on again. Broadly. smile


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Animisha #3189017 01/27/22 01:45 PM
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Thank you for your answers! I had never heard of it before, and I found it in measure 15 of this little piece, that I am presently practising:

https://michaelkravchuk.com/free-piano-sheet-music-a-little-song-op-27-no-1-kabalevsky/


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Animisha #3189031 01/27/22 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Animisha
Thank you for your answers! I had never heard of it before, and I found it in measure 15 of this little piece, that I am presently practising:

https://michaelkravchuk.com/free-piano-sheet-music-a-little-song-op-27-no-1-kabalevsky/
Well, that's strange. In my edition of that piece (it's in the RCM level 2 repertoire book) it's op. 27 no. 2 not no. 1 and the term "broader" doesn't appear. There is only a "poco rit." in the last measure. IMO, this is an editorial addition of this Michael Kravchuk. The pianissimos in the left hand are also editorial additions although those are good suggestions. All the other marks are the same.

Qazsedcft #3189036 01/27/22 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Originally Posted by Animisha
Thank you for your answers! I had never heard of it before, and I found it in measure 15 of this little piece, that I am presently practising:

https://michaelkravchuk.com/free-piano-sheet-music-a-little-song-op-27-no-1-kabalevsky/
Well, that's strange. In my edition of that piece (it's in the RCM level 2 repertoire book) it's op. 27 no. 2 not no. 1 and the term "broader" doesn't appear. There is only a "poco rit." in the last measure. IMO, this is an editorial addition of this Michael Kravchuk. The pianissimos in the left hand are also editorial additions although those are good suggestions. All the other marks are the same.

You are quite right! I compared this score with the op. 27 from imslp and there are fewer dynamic markings in that one. In the imslp file, the piece is called Ditty, which I find much more appealing.
I have actually written to Kravchuk to ask him what broader means, but he didn't (yet?) answer me. He also has left out one dynamic marking, mp in measure 7. I have put it back in. cool


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Animisha #3189038 01/27/22 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Animisha
You are quite right! I compared this score with the op. 27 from imslp and there are fewer dynamic markings in that one. In the imslp file, the piece is called Ditty, which I find much more appealing.
I have actually written to Kravchuk to ask him what broader means, but he didn't (yet?) answer me. He also has left out one dynamic marking, mp in measure 7. I have put it back in. cool
IMSLP? Are you sure? On IMSLP they wrote:
Works by Kabalevsky cannot be uploaded to IMSLP until 2038 with a few exceptions as early as 2024 (see discussion).

The RCM edition doesn't have the mp you mention and they are strict about following sources. They give exact sources for all their pieces.

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Kabalevsky was Russian from the cold war era, so I would be very suspicious of any English language marking in his music!

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Animisha #3189087 01/27/22 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Animisha
Thank you for your answers! I had never heard of it before, and I found it in measure 15 of this little piece, that I am presently practising:

https://michaelkravchuk.com/free-piano-sheet-music-a-little-song-op-27-no-1-kabalevsky/

It is an indication that has been added by Kravchuk. He suggests to play it more slowly. But you can also play it as usual with a slight rallentando. Just try both and see what you prefer. There is no wrong choice.


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Animisha #3189144 01/27/22 09:35 PM
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I think there is a musical notation (r) which I think means 'broader'.

I can't remember if I am correct but I went to the trouble of taking a photo of it for proof the term r exists.

https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/3189141/r.html

I'll leave it to our resident musical genius sidokar to tell us what it really means as I can't remember

Last edited by Moo :); 01/27/22 09:35 PM.
Moo :) #3189206 01/28/22 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
I think there is a musical notation (r) which I think means 'broader'.

I can't remember if I am correct but I went to the trouble of taking a photo of it for proof the term r exists.

https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/3189141/r.html

I'll leave it to our resident musical genius sidokar to tell us what it really means as I can't remember
I think the r stands for ritenuto before the note with a fermata, but I'm not the resident musical genius. wink

Qazsedcft #3189207 01/28/22 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Originally Posted by Animisha
You are quite right! I compared this score with the op. 27 from imslp and there are fewer dynamic markings in that one. In the imslp file, the piece is called Ditty, which I find much more appealing.
I have actually written to Kravchuk to ask him what broader means, but he didn't (yet?) answer me. He also has left out one dynamic marking, mp in measure 7. I have put it back in. cool
IMSLP? Are you sure? On IMSLP they wrote:
Works by Kabalevsky cannot be uploaded to IMSLP until 2038 with a few exceptions as early as 2024 (see discussion).

Once again, you are quite right! I picked it up elsewhere on the internet. Here you can see the mp in measure 7.


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Sidokar #3189208 01/28/22 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Sidokar
Originally Posted by Animisha
Thank you for your answers! I had never heard of it before, and I found it in measure 15 of this little piece, that I am presently practising:

https://michaelkravchuk.com/free-piano-sheet-music-a-little-song-op-27-no-1-kabalevsky/

It is an indication that has been added by Kravchuk. He suggests to play it more slowly. But you can also play it as usual with a slight rallentando. Just try both and see what you prefer. There is no wrong choice.

Sidorkar, what is the difference between playing it more slowly and playing with a slight rallentando? Is a slight rallentando less slow than more slowly?


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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Moo :) #3189210 01/28/22 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
I think there is a musical notation (r) which I think means 'broader'.

I can't remember if I am correct but I went to the trouble of taking a photo of it for proof the term r exists.

https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/3189141/r.html

I'll leave it to our resident musical genius sidokar to tell us what it really means as I can't remember

[Linked Image]

I am not the resident musical genius sidokar, but I can google (sometimes). rf means rinforzando: played with a sudden increase of force —used as a direction in music usually for special emphasis of a note, chord, or short phrase —abbreviation rf or rfz


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Animisha #3189213 01/28/22 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Animisha
Sidorkar, what is the difference between playing it more slowly and playing with a slight rallentando? Is a slight rallentando less slow than more slowly?

Animisha, playing more slowly means that you keep a tempo but it is just slower than the previous one. A rallentando is when you start with the previous tempo and progressively reduce the tempo until you reach the end of the section, in this case the end of the piece. You can also do both, ie start with a slower tempo and then slow even further toward the last notes of the piece. Typically you almost always do a rallentando when ending a piece, it can be rather short over a few notes or a little longer if appropriate. Of course here there are only less than than 2 bars so there wouldnt be a significant difference.

Here is a recording of the piece with a fairly minimal rallentando.



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Moo :) #3189217 01/28/22 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
I think there is a musical notation (r) which I think means 'broader'.

I can't remember if I am correct but I went to the trouble of taking a photo of it for proof the term r exists.

https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/3189141/r.html

I'll leave it to sidokar to tell us what it really means as I can't remember

I am a bit embarrassed ...

delicato is a term that I have not see very often (cant even remember if I did see it somewhere). It is italian (french délicat), the same word in english, delicate.

The difference with broader is that the latter applies to a tempo, when delicato is an expressive term. Though it could also imply a certain slower tempo, more of a rubato effect really, it means to play lightly (maybe even slightly detached) leading to the sudden rF.


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If you really want to dig into music, this picture is a wonderful example of a composer (editor?) providing copious directions on how to interpret her music. There are five directions for playing the music in this tiny example - The slur over the whole phrase, delicato, rF, Fermata, p, and the hairpins.

[Linked Image]

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A mysterious and irritating phenomena..
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