Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Memorization: Corea vs. Zhdanov

I wonder what you guys think of the videos below, which seem to epitomize the contrast between learning music like you did as a child (muscle memory) vs. more analytically as an adult. Chick Corea seems to be advocating for simply repeating the piece again and again until you "know" it, which sounds like muscle memory to me. He actually discourages having a conscious map of the music in your mind. Zhdanov, on the other hand, advocates what I see many classical teachers saying, which is to use various more conscious methods to memorize a piece and NOT relying on muscle memory. Personally I am only able to utilize muscle memory, and I experience its pitfalls every time I play in front of others. Muscle memory is easily derailed by nerves or other distraction. But somehow it works for Chick. Maybe it only works for people who don't experience much stage fright? What do you guys think? Here are the videos:

In my opinion, the answer to a solid memory of music (for performance) is to combine the different types of memory: muscle, analytical, etc. and not to rely on a single one. I like how this music professor puts it:

I’m of the analytical school, and have bern since I read Chaffin’s book ‘practicing perfection: the role of memory in piano performance’. The first half of the book is how virtuostic pianists memorize in written summary form. Almost all say that muscle memory alone fails you when you need it most . Linked below is a summary of the book

https://memorisingmusic.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/practicing-perfection-book-review/

Thanks, Talão. I've seen other videos by that professor and like the way he teaches. He doesn't mince words. In the video you linked to, he makes a strong case for knowing and applying music theory during the memorization process, which is something I blew off growing up when my music teacher tried to teach it to me (and now wish I hadn't).

It doesn’t need to be a full theory analysis to still be helpful: try ‘next chord is E flat minor’ to mark a problem spot’. Or ‘next section is minor key’. Use the theory as major land marks

Thanks for the tip. When very young (<13), I could rely on muscle memory for recitals without issues. Kids tend to be less self-conscious before their teens. Straight motor memory when playing for others proved to be more and more unreliable with age, so, like Emery, I'm looking for something more.

I had the same experience: as a kid, brute repetition worked, and My teacher never discussed how to practice or how to memorize. I was fearless about performing anywhere, anytime. As an adult, brute repetition just is inefficient for practicing and doesn’t work so well for performance. I’ve basically had to regroup how I was doing both. And now I have performance anxiety, which I am trying to beat down.
New day equals something else to learn.

I think those that say they only use muscle memory don't realize that they probably also use aural memory to a significant extent also.

For the last 60+ years I have not memorized a single piece and just use the score. Even as a teenager I only memorized a few pieces for exams or studio recitals. This has allowed me to learn more than 10x the repertoire than I would have learned if I tried to memorize the music.

This question was what method do you use to memorize’. I memorize very few (2-3), but I want my memory to be reliable. Those that try to keep 30 in memory need to also address the question of which method.

So no love for Chick's method? It's what I expected, and I can't say I disagree as Chick is the only one I've encountered who promotes using muscle memory only. However, it seems to work for Chick. Is he just an outlier?

I wonder if there is a different way to approach this, as I expect accomplished musicians who don't read music must do (like Dave Brubeck). For them, playing music may be more like dancing or martial arts forms. The goal is to be able to perform subconsciously, or to "know" as Chick puts it. I wonder if people like Chick have success with this method because of their state of mind. I imagine it's a combination of conquering nerves to the extent they can shut them out during performance and getting into a "zone" that likewise shuts things out. Sort of a Zen state, I guess. So I wonder if an alternative to the analytical way of memorizing would be to use Chick's method in combination with some sort of Zen or meditative state.

What do you guys think? Anyone ever successfully pursue such a path?

I dislike this term “muscle memory.” Muscles have no memory. The brain remembers movements and sends signals to the muscles to move.

Musicians are athletes of the small muscle groups.

Agree with that. Even if they did have memory, they dont move by themselves. It is all controlled by the brain, who stores memory of mouvements. Like any memory, it is something that can be developped with practice.

Yes, "muscle memory" is just an expression. Memories reside in the brain. But, I wonder why the brain's memory of movement gets derailed more easily than its memory of the written score or chords. Perhaps it's because movement memory resides more in the subconscious compared to the others?

The bullet proof musician calls it ‘serial chaining’. His theory is it fails if your performance and practice environments are different. This is simplified— the full discussion is in the link.

https://bulletproofmusician.com/musicians-seem-memorization-naturals-can-become-one/

Great article, thanks for that dogperson. Though I wish for the simplicity of Chick's method, it seems only a few can make it work. For the rest of us, the methods in the Bulletproof Musician article and others like that sound like the way to go. I just need a way to implement these methods that doesn't feel so darned tedious.

I used to run seriously and I read a fascinating book on running and the brain which describes the central governor theory:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_governor?wprov=sfti1

I wonder if such a theory also applies to a musical performance.

So, if a runner is standing on the start line of a race, how does the brain decide the firing rate of the muscles to complete the course? The runner has never run this course before.

The answer appears to be that the brain does forward planning based on the paces run in training. The brain knows prior distances that have been run and at what pace, so, it picks a firing rate based on that information.

Of course, it’s not always perfect, as a course can be much more difficult than the one seen in training.

I think a similar thing is done when performing a piece of music from memory. The brain plays back the muscle movements at tempos performed in practice.

I remember a music student telling me that she noticed her tempo dropping during very long pieces. I think one explanation is muscle fatigue, fatigue of the small muscle groups.

At 1:35 in the video you posted in the OP he indicates he writes music, so I think on some level, perhaps subconsciously, he's relying on an understanding of music theory more than he may care to admit.

Regarding the second memorization technique the author mentions here, which the article calls "content addressable access," Margaret Wacyk recommends learning to begin the piece from a number of key sections throughout the score, labeled 1 through whatever number, and then randomly scramble playing them from memory:

@Mr S
Great tutorial— I’ve now subscribed to her tutorials

She's a wonderful pianist and teacher. I like how she sits fairly low in relation to the keyboard (enhances "pulling" action with the fingers that helps me play tightly spaced, difficult passages more evenly).

On another note, I think it was the professor in a video earlier in this thread who talked about playing the piece incredibly slowly from memory. Any tentativeness or uncertainty is magnified when doing that, which I take as a warning to drill the heck out of such passages until the hesitancies are completely gone, as phrases with those in them are the most likely to break down, then snowball into even more unforced errors, when under pressure to perform.