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I'm so glad to have you guys here to share this with!

I moved to Portland in June 2021 and found one of those Terminator Stout signs hanging in the window of one of many McMenamin's restaurants around town. I was actually on a bad date at the time, there, and managed to convince the bartender to dig up the name of the neon place who made it for them. I had to talk that place into recreating me one -- they normally don't make them for the public -- and after a long wait got my own. Don't know why I'm so obsessed with neon but it's one of my great joys in life. I have an old Blatz sign sitting atop my bookshelf. Rest of the room is lit with edison bulbs.

I was an amateur piano tech for many years in Pittsburgh and enjoyed helping people find, move, fix, and tune pianos. Once, early on, I showed up to a move with a 10' truck which I hadn't realized had no ramp. I called up a seasoned tuner buddy and he said "Just tip the piano on its corner, then have someone back the truck up slowly until you can rest the wheels in the air into the back platform. From there you can hoist up the lower end and slide it in." I was so impressed with that workaround I've always been sure there's some clever way to move heavy things. Legend has it there was a piano mover called the Zen Piano Mover in San Francisco who would do whole moves by himself with ropes and pullies. His waitlist was years long just to watch him work.

This piano seriously kicks ass. Only trouble is the speakers are no joke -- my upstairs roomie just called saying "You sound great, but QUITE LOUD."


Kawai RX-5 BLAK, Kawai Novus NV10s
Working on: Bach Partita #2, Schubert Klavierstucke 2, Scriabin 8/12
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Coming up on 4 years with the NV-10, I thought I'd provide a bit of an update.

1. I still love it. Absolutely adore it. It looks, sounds and feels brand new. The action is as magnificent as ever. And while I normally play it using Garritan CFX, I've also been using the built in sounds for variety. And they're great. Funny enough, most non-piano folks don't even realize it's a digital.

2. I've been coming out of the 2020-2021 COVID isolation shell by going out of my way to play some nice higher end grands, mainly to "plan for the future" but also to compare against the NV-10, since it's been my only piano for the last two years and I've been wondering if that's impacted my sense and sensibilities. I've been taking notes, which I'll summarize below (my focus is mainly on the action):

Quote
a. 2000s Steinway Model B. Oh. So nice. I'm a bit averse to Steinway tbh, because I never want to pay that tax. But this was gorgeous, and the action felt featherweight. I get what people say when they run into a piano that "just about plays itself." The black keys are super narrow, and oddly, I was so distracted by how fat the white keys look (particularly the C and E keys between the sharps) that it caused me to lose track of my playing a few times.

b. Mid 2010s Steinway Model M. Also a beautiful, light action. Sound is a little more pedestrian (didn't blow me away).

c. 1920s Steinway Model A (with Steinway factory action/rebuild): Meh. Oddly medium-heavier action for something "new from factory." Sound didn't really impress either. Liked my NV-10 better.

d. New Bosendorfer 230VC. Heaven. The action is superb--buttery, light, precise. The tone is incredible. My favorite experience so far, this really reminded me why I want a nice acoustic grand.

e. New Bosendorfer 170VC. Action is just as nice as the 230VC, and tone is more than impressive for a 5.5' baby grand. Gotta say I liked it better than the NV-10.

f. 2009 Yamaha C3. Came away really unimpressed, which surprised me given I've played quite a bit on a similar C3 and liked it pre-pandemic. Action is precise but heavy. Black keys are SO fat on Yamahas. Why??

g. 2000s Yamaha C7. Really quite pleasant. Balanced, beautiful action, the most similar in feel to the NV-10. Also, a huge, full-bodied tone. It really spoke out to the benefits of a larger grand.

h. New Yamaha C3X TA2. Blech. Also REALLY surprised that I didn't like the action (incredibly dense/heavy) or the tone (really distant sounding in the bass, too immediate in the treble, no singing tone). This bummed me out because I was thinking a C3X would be a really nice, reasonable "10-year grand" but I just didn't like it at all.

i. New Shigeru Kawai SK-3. Wow, came away impressed. Was expecting the action to be similar to the NV-10, but was actually a bit heavier. Still, so easy to sit down and play, and the tone/body immediately swept me away. Not sure I want to own a piano with a heavier action than I have now, though.

In the end, I walked away from this experience really appreciating the NV-10 even more. I consider all of the above premium grands, and as much as I enjoyed playing them, I thought my NV-10 more than carried its weight in comparison, in the action department. I actually preferred the NV-10 to the majority I tried, and it was only near/past the 6-figure mark where I felt an appreciable improvement in the action dept (which is going to be a HUGE problem if I ever do get in the market for a real grand :D).

So it was fun, and even after several years of ownership I'm still finding ways to appreciate the NV-10 more. It's by far the best DP purchase I've made.


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Nice summary, Gombessa!

I also still enjoy my NV10 like in the beginning (and not even playing with a VST, just the internal sounds). It looks, sounds and feels like new. But I don’t have any other pianos to compare like you, so without an objective comparison there’s always the possibility that I’m just used to what I have. 😁 So, it’s nice to read that I don’t seem to be totally deluded.


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Coming up on 4 years with the NV-10, I thought I'd provide a bit of an update.

Thank you for this very nice report, really interesting. I suggest that you post it also on the piano forum (the one about the acoustic, rather than digital where you are posting) some players them might have additional insight to share and many will appreciate it. And if you care, I think even in the clack people will like it.

In any case, thanks!

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What strikes me most, so far, about the NV-10s is its dynamic range compared to the Roland I was playing. I spent four months learning a bunch of repertoire on that Roland and now it feels like I have to learn it all over again. I feel out of control, disoriented, sorta helpless, like I hadn't practiced in months and had to do a lot of catch up. Last night I got the little Yamaha 76-key keyboard at my girlfriend's and was playing Bach and.... oh, it was all back! I really learned this stuff on a keyboard action.

I am struggling with the Novus sound. I got used to small speakers that give a round sound at low volumes. The Novus has a big sound but you need volume to appreciate it, and I can't seem to find a pleasing piano sound that really connects at lower volumes. The main Kawai concert grand sounds kind of brittle, full of brightness that overshadows the warmer tones, and I feel out of control to get softer sound qualities out of it -- even at pianissimo it feels bright and loud. I tried the romantic voicing and other options but then it sounds muffled and dull.

Keep in mind these aren't reflections of someone who spent four months, hours a day, on a concert grand -- this is from a guy who got deeply comfortable with a $999 electric piano rented for $60/month from the local piano store. I'm really curious to see how my relationship with the Novus evolves.


Kawai RX-5 BLAK, Kawai Novus NV10s
Working on: Bach Partita #2, Schubert Klavierstucke 2, Scriabin 8/12
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Not sure about the NV10S, but the NV10 has a “Speaker Volume” option in the “Sound Settings” menu that you can toggle between “Normal” and “Low”. The latter setting is supposed to improve the sound at lower volume settings (never used it, so I don’t know how well it works). Maybe try that? (Of course this does not apply when using headphones.)

Other than that, my recommendation for a new digital piano owner is always to not right away start fiddling with the sound settings in search of the “perfect” sound.

Most often, it simply means that you (meaning the general “you” here) have a certain sound stored in your head as your “normal” sound (from whatever acoustic or digital you played before) and you now try to emulate this normal sound with the new instrument - ignoring that different instruments simply sound different (even more so in the acoustic world than the digital world) and there is no such thing as *the* piano sound.

I suggest playing with the default sound for a week or two to reset you “normal” and only then start fiddling with the settings to optimize the sound on the basis of this new normal.

Last edited by JoBert; 01/16/22 02:41 PM.

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Great advice JoBert!

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Originally Posted by Byudzai
What strikes me most, so far, about the NV-10s is its dynamic range compared to the Roland I was playing. I spent four months learning a bunch of repertoire on that Roland and now it feels like I have to learn it all over again. I feel out of control, disoriented, sorta helpless, like I hadn't practiced in months and had to do a lot of catch up. Last night I got the little Yamaha 76-key keyboard at my girlfriend's and was playing Bach and.... oh, it was all back! I really learned this stuff on a keyboard action.

I am struggling with the Novus sound. I got used to small speakers that give a round sound at low volumes. The Novus has a big sound but you need volume to appreciate it, and I can't seem to find a pleasing piano sound that really connects at lower volumes. The main Kawai concert grand sounds kind of brittle, full of brightness that overshadows the warmer tones, and I feel out of control to get softer sound qualities out of it -- even at pianissimo it feels bright and loud. I tried the romantic voicing and other options but then it sounds muffled and dull.

Keep in mind these aren't reflections of someone who spent four months, hours a day, on a concert grand -- this is from a guy who got deeply comfortable with a $999 electric piano rented for $60/month from the local piano store. I'm really curious to see how my relationship with the Novus evolves.

It always feel like this when you go from cheap piano to good piano, on acoustics it's far more evident so no worries.

Besides Roland piano are by default too easy to make desired dynamics.

And give it some time. Speakers need some time to burn in (it's main few hours where all of the parts are adjusting to themselves), your muscle strenght will go up and as JoBert said you need to just get used to new piano sound.

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Originally Posted by Gombessa
i. New Shigeru Kawai SK-3. Wow, came away impressed. Was expecting the action to be similar to the NV-10, but was actually a bit heavier. Still, so easy to sit down and play, and the tone/body immediately swept me away. Not sure I want to own a piano with a heavier action than I have now, though.

Great write-up and thanks for sharing all these grand piano observations!

Have you evaluated the GL and GX series? Both of these are now available with AURES 2. This is the real upgrade from the Novus:

https://kawaius.com/product/gx-2-aures-2/

Quote
The new GX-2 AURES 2 is the flagship of the AnyTime hybrid collection. It represents the pinnacle of acoustic hybrid pianos by impeccably blending one of the world’s most revered grand pianos with ground-breaking digital piano technology. Built upon the solid foundation of the renowned GX-2 grand piano, the new AURES 2 hybrid flawlessly incorporates advanced sound technology found on Kawai’s flagship digital instruments including Kawai’s proprietary Soundboard amplification system. The result is a premium instrument that inspires new heights of musical creativity.

However, it's possibly not worth a direct upgrade from Novus to GX-2 AURES 2 rather than keeping the Novus + get a regular acoustic.

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Originally Posted by navindra
Originally Posted by Gombessa
i. New Shigeru Kawai SK-3. Wow, came away impressed. Was expecting the action to be similar to the NV-10, but was actually a bit heavier. Still, so easy to sit down and play, and the tone/body immediately swept me away. Not sure I want to own a piano with a heavier action than I have now, though.

Great write-up and thanks for sharing all these grand piano observations!

Have you evaluated the GL and GX series? Both of these are now available with AURES 2. This is the real upgrade from the Novus:

https://kawaius.com/product/gx-2-aures-2/

Quote
The new GX-2 AURES 2 is the flagship of the AnyTime hybrid collection. It represents the pinnacle of acoustic hybrid pianos by impeccably blending one of the world’s most revered grand pianos with ground-breaking digital piano technology. Built upon the solid foundation of the renowned GX-2 grand piano, the new AURES 2 hybrid flawlessly incorporates advanced sound technology found on Kawai’s flagship digital instruments including Kawai’s proprietary Soundboard amplification system. The result is a premium instrument that inspires new heights of musical creativity.

However, it's possibly not worth a direct upgrade from Novus to GX-2 AURES 2 rather than keeping the Novus + get a regular acoustic.

lol definitely an epic upgrade from NV10S to GX-2 AURES2... however, I love it!!! I have 9 years to upgrade to the GX-2 AURES2 (or whatever the equivalent is in 9 years from now)... need to find space to put it. kids need to move out and then boom can do this ultimate upgrade crazy. amazing instrument...


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Originally Posted by navindra
Have you evaluated the GL and GX series? Both of these are now available with AURES 2. This is the real upgrade from the Novus:

I did, but didn't spend enough time with the GL/GX to form an opinion (spent most of my time with the SK).

As to Aures, I was thinking if I do upgrade, will I care for amplified digital audio? The answer for me is probably "no". Now, I would absolutely love to have a factory silent system so I can fully replace the NV-10, and when I play aloud I'll do so acoustically. But the only reason I'd get an Aures or TA/Disklavier over an ATX/SH2 is if it's the only option for the piano (or the cost difference is truly negligible).


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Originally Posted by DWW
lol definitely an epic upgrade from NV10S to GX-2 AURES2... however, I love it!!! I have 9 years to upgrade to the GX-2 AURES2 (or whatever the equivalent is in 9 years from now)... need to find space to put it. kids need to move out and then boom can do this ultimate upgrade crazy. amazing instrument...

Good thought!

Originally Posted by Gombessa
I did, but didn't spend enough time with the GL/GX to form an opinion (spent most of my time with the SK).

As to Aures, I was thinking if I do upgrade, will I care for amplified digital audio? The answer for me is probably "no". Now, I would absolutely love to have a factory silent system so I can fully replace the NV-10, and when I play aloud I'll do so acoustically. But the only reason I'd get an Aures or TA/Disklavier over an ATX/SH2 is if it's the only option for the piano (or the cost difference is truly negligible).

If you want your Kawai to sound like a Steinway, then yes, that would certainly be a reason to get the transducers. The real strings vibrating along would complete the illusion. When I was checking out TransAcoustic uprights, the grand samples on the upright sounded very impressive!

My thought is that recording MIDI is much easier than recording with mics, and you still want to hear your performance without being encumbered with something as inelegant as headphones.

To my knowledge, Kawai does not have a Disklavier equivalent solution, sadly.

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Originally Posted by navindra
Have you evaluated the GL and GX series? Both of these are now available with AURES 2. This is the real upgrade from the Novus:

Funny, for me -- at this point in my life -- the Novus was the upgrade from my RX-5. I love my grand but I prefer apartment living and the 6'6" is too big and too loud to be of much use, so it lives in my dad's house. I once lived in a larger apartment with thick concrete floors (see photo below), and it was no problem there, but for the most part the Novus is a big upgrade in that I can do grand-level practicing in a tiny space with a volume control! (Not to mention recording, additional sounds, no tuning, less humidity concern, etc).

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Byudzai; 01/20/22 07:21 AM.

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Originally Posted by Byudzai
Originally Posted by navindra
Have you evaluated the GL and GX series? Both of these are now available with AURES 2. This is the real upgrade from the Novus:

Funny, for me -- at this point in my life -- the Novus was the upgrade from my RX-5. I love my grand but I prefer apartment living and the 6'6" is too big and too loud to be of much use, so it lives in my dad's house. I once lived in a larger apartment with thick concrete floors (see photo below), and it was no problem there, but for the most part the Novus is a big upgrade in that I can do grand-level practicing in a tiny space with a volume control! (Not to mention recording, additional sounds, no tuning, less humidity concern, etc).

[Linked Image]


Do you think that tone control (color changes), articulation differences and overall sonority / reverbation is very inferior to that from RX-5? You are one of very few people to own both and from the same manufacturer, so I would be happy to read your playing experiences on NV vs real piano, considering different aspects of piano playing.

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Byudzai, that's quite a nice apartment! I'm sure your current one houses your NV-10 just as well.

I can definitely understand practical downsizing and not wanting to deal with the hassle of a big place, piano, etc. With young kids, I'm still a few years away from having the fortune to have such a choice, but that means my immediate plans are to get as nice of an acoustic as possible, at some point in the future. Right now, it's still aspirational/pipe-dream territory. So the Novus is as close as I can get.


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Be careful what you wish for, Gombessa, and listen to someone who has lived the ‘dream’ (Byudzai) and it turns out it wasn’t that great; it was loud, that it was, but at your age is it wise to expose your fragile hearing to a loud and temperamental acoustic? Of course, if your future plans include a mansion by the sea then I see how an acoustic at the center of it all could impress your old friends.

Originally Posted by Byudzai
Funny, for me -- at this point in my life -- the Novus was the upgrade from my RX-5. I love my grand but I prefer apartment living and the 6'6" is too big and too loud to be of much use, so it lives in my dad's house. I once lived in a larger apartment with thick concrete floors (see photo below), and it was no problem there, but for the most part the Novus is a big upgrade in that I can do grand-level practicing in a tiny space with a volume control! (Not to mention recording, additional sounds, no tuning, less humidity concern, etc).

The acoustic is the nightmare; the digital hybrid and the massive improvements it will undergo over the next decade is what keeps me going and a-dreaming!

IMHO!

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Be careful what you wish for, Gombessa, and listen to someone who has lived the ‘dream’ (Byudzai) and it turns out it wasn’t that great; it was loud, that it was, but at your age is it wise to expose your fragile hearing to a loud and temperamental acoustic?

but at your age is it wise to expose your fragile hearing


but at your age is it wise


your age


You had to go there?


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Originally Posted by Byudzai
Funny, for me -- at this point in my life -- the Novus was the upgrade from my RX-5. I love my grand but I prefer apartment living and the 6'6" is too big and too loud to be of much use, so it lives in my dad's house. I once lived in a larger apartment with thick concrete floors (see photo below), and it was no problem there, but for the most part the Novus is a big upgrade in that I can do grand-level practicing in a tiny space with a volume control! (Not to mention recording, additional sounds, no tuning, less humidity concern, etc).

That's definitely a really good point. Loud = noise = a problem for me as well. From that perspective, the Novus with volume control could be seen as an upgrade.

Originally Posted by Gombessa
I'm still a few years away from having the fortune to have such a choice, but that means my immediate plans are to get as nice of an acoustic as possible, at some point in the future. Right now, it's still aspirational/pipe-dream territory. So the Novus is as close as I can get.

I'm very interested to hear about the acoustics you get to sample along the way! I do think your plan to get the best acoustic you can get in the short term is better than waiting for a fortune or risking life throwing a curveball at you.

Originally Posted by Pete14
The acoustic is the nightmare; the digital hybrid and the massive improvements it will undergo over the next decade is what keeps me going and a-dreaming!

Words of wisdom!

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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Byudzai, that's quite a nice apartment! I'm sure your current one houses your NV-10 just as well.

Current room is MUCH cozier... living with a couple friends in a single room. Will say, the piano really classes up the joint!

[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by maucycy
Do you think that tone control (color changes), articulation differences and overall sonority / reverbation is very inferior to that from RX-5? You are one of very few people to own both and from the same manufacturer, so I would be happy to read your playing experiences on NV vs real piano, considering different aspects of piano playing.

I wish I had them in the same space to compare; any impression of mine will be suspect at best. I do remember going back and forth between the Yamaha N1X and a 6'6"ish grand and concluding that while the responsiveness and control of color etc were intact with the hybrid, the sonority couldn't compare. That said, I often go back and watch this video, where the Novus is on a proper stage (recorded with PZMs) rather than cramped in a small room up against a sheet of drywall.



I just had a piano lesson today on an older Steinway grand with a lot of emphasis on separation of notes in this Bach partita, and I felt very in control coming home to work on that technique. I sometimes forget I'm playing an electric piano with headphones on -- but usually only when the volume is up high enough that it's hard on my ears over time.


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Working on: Bach Partita #2, Schubert Klavierstucke 2, Scriabin 8/12
Next up: Chopin Impromptu #3, Schubert Op 90 #3, Mendelssohn "Lost Illusions."
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