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Joined: Apr 2019
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op299 Offline OP
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Hi,

I ordered one of these, and have been playing around for a few days.

I am demoing this as a midi keyboard. Haven't tried the internal sounds (except for the piano sound, sounds much worse than say Ivory II, Garritan or Pianoteq.)

I had previously tried the earlier model Studiologic 88 Grand, which has TP-40 wood, whereas the Numa has TP-400 wood. Didn't really like it. A bit hard feeling, at bit on and off. And what bugged me the most - the sensors are not very well placed. If you do not strike down the key from the top, you cannot get a high midi value, no matter how much you accelerate the key. Affects repetition as well.

Anyway, I have tried VPC-1, MP11se and casio 510, so comparing to those.

I prefer the feel of the VPC-1 (but it is too heavy for me, most importantly it has too much upwards pressure even after you press the key)

My comparison at home is a baby grand 186 cm.

So:

As a keyboard it is, I think, really good. A bit like the earlier 88 grand, but much more control throughout the down movement. Easy to play pp. It also has simulated escapement, which the 88 does not. It is also a tad lighter I think, but might be remembering wrongly.

I actually like it more than MP11se or Casio 510, but that might be mostly me. MP11se to me felt a bit mushy, and a bit too light for me, though I know many like it. MP11se has proper pivot length, which makes a difference in feel, still I find it somehow easier to control the sound on the Numa GT. The Casio also had a bit more toy-like feel. This is a bit surprising, since the Numa is a folded action, whereas the other two have long pivots. Maybe it is mostly a preference of weight - the Numa as a bit more initial resistance than the other two. To me it kind of emulates the sense of connecting the the hammer before you accelerate, so to speak.

You feel the lack of pivot length. It comes across as a difference between black and white keys, and difference in playing at the top. Especially at the black keys playing at the top is noticably harder. The black keys are a bit heavier as well.

The escapement sensation is nice, but the sensors are placed in the same wrong way, which makes it a bit weird: is push the key down silently to just when escapement starts, and then accelerate though it, you get no sound. On a real grand you get a sound of course, since the escapement tells you you are still in contact with the hammer.

Still it bothers me less then on the 88 Grand. On that one the sound always felt a disconnected (I blamed the sensor placement, maybe it was just the feel of the keyboard). On the Numa it feels very nice and natural.

On the negative: still it has a bit of that hard, on and off feeling of the 88 grand. hard/stiff sensation when you it the keybed, and and a bit on-off "switch"-like feel. I guess that is lack of pivot length. Still easy to control though, but a bit unrealistic in that regards. Compared to the VPC-feels a lot less realistic.

Very nice texture on the white keys.

Easy to play fast and hit notes without being light. Tried the Pianomarvel SASR test for fun, got 1648 which is pretty good smile

Probably won't keep it. Since I am using it only as a midi controller paying for all the other stuff is a bit unnecessary, kind of hoping Studiologic will release it as only controller (like the 88 grand).

Thats it, if you have any questions let me know, probably keep it a few days, then return it.

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op299 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by op299
Tp 40 wood, whereas the Numa has TP-400 wood. Didn't really like it.

To clarify, didnt really like the 88 grand/TP 40

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Originally Posted by op299
The escapement sensation is nice, but the sensors are placed in the same wrong way, which makes it a bit weird: is push the key down silently to just when escapement starts, and then accelerate though it, you get no sound. On a real grand you get a sound of course, since the escapement tells you you are still in contact with the hammer.

No personal experience from me, but kind of a relevant comment from Dexibell's Ralf Schink on this video: VIVO H10 SERIES (Demo Video)

Originally Posted by YouTube video comments
clothearednincompoop: At 9:58 and 10:00 the note sounds before the key is (supposedly) pressed beyond the escapement notch. I realize it may just have been a mistake in the demo, but how is it actually:
a) On an acoustic grand piano should the escapement be felt just before the key would produce a sound if pressed further down with enough velocity?
c) On this Dexibell/Fatar action is the escapement notch ("plop") placed correctly in relation to the key/hammer sensors so that the behaviour is the same as on an acoustic grand?

Ralf plays Dexibell:
Hello, I recorded a very short video trying to do the same thing on my Acoustic Piano. Depending on the momentum when you touch the key, the sound comes before the escapement. This is mainly due to the inertia of the Mechanical Action. The Fatar Keybed is really good in replicating and emulating this phenomenon. Please have a look at the video in the following link. Ralf's video

There a faint sound was triggered even before the key reached the escapement notch as he approached the escapement notch too fast. I quess at least two sensors must have been triggered at that point. Then there's just one left and that's not enough to measure a velocity as going down from the escapement notch is then a separate new user action on the key. (There could be a long pause between those two.)

And if the first "played note" based on the first two sensors was a silent note, then there's no sound at all like in your case.

I wonder if any manufacturer is able to do this the "right way" if there is a one. More sensors? Continuous key position detection? (The hybrids have that, right?)

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Thanks @op299 for the comprehensive report about your experience, I'm somewhat psyched about this keyboard and couldn't find that much deal of information out there..

What really drew my attention is that you liked it less (action-wise) than the VPC but more than the MP11 given that both slabs share almost same mechanism, never tried a VPC though so cannot really tell, just interesting to know.

I don't really care about internal sounds and whistles etc. since the main use would be as a MIDI controller for Pianoteq and other VST's. I play on a CA97 (GF2) and the action feels alright to me, no issues playing any sort of music whatsoever, still I like actions on the heavier side as long as they're as expressive as the GF2 so I guess the TP400 wouldn't be a bad call in this sense, though I'd love to see some youtube videos of people playing some demanding classical pieces on it, I know it's still to early for that since it's been released very recently so we'll have to wait until we're able to see/hear some nice renditions on it.


Regards,
David


Kawai CA97
Pianoteq 7 Pro
http://youtube.com/DavidIzquierdoAzzouz
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op299 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
I wonder if any manufacturer is able to do this the "right way" if there is a one. More sensors? Continuous key position detection? (The hybrids have that, right?)

I do remember trying it on the VPC-1, and there it behaved as it should, as far as I remember. You could push down silently to the escapement and get a sound if you then accelerate (with difference in velocity I think) Not sure how it worked there, maybe only 2 sensor get activated. Also, if I remember correctly, on the Roland Fp-30.

It is a "real" problem, in the sense that it affects repetition speed. On the Numa X GT you don't grand piano like repetition, where you can stay very low in the keys during a trill for example.

I guess the best solution would be to have a mechanism that measures impact somehow, but maybe thats impossible or very complicated.

Last edited by op299; 01/14/22 05:22 AM.
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Originally Posted by David Izquierdo
What really drew my attention is that you liked it less (action-wise) than the VPC but more than the MP11 given that both slabs share almost same mechanism, never tried a VPC though so cannot really tell, just interesting to know.

VPC-1 and Mp11se feel very different, but a large part of it might be weight.

Last edited by op299; 01/14/22 05:25 AM.

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