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Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318140 01/05/03 04:07 PM
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I've played alot of older Asian pianos. If they are played alot (maybe excepting the better Yamahas's they seem to be shot in ten years I have an 25 yr old Baldwin 5'8, I had it regulated for $250 and it's superb. That's the artist grand. Baldwin has quite a few other brand mediocre pianos. Definitely read Larry Fine


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318141 01/05/03 06:31 PM
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A new Baldwin R will run you north of 20K. A 25 year old Baldwin will probably fall within this shopper's budget.

As much as I like the Baldwin R, a 25 year old one may be more risk than a new Asian, and carry no warranty. Heck, a new R may not even have a warranty!

I do agree Asian pianos, in general, do not hold up as well with the passage of time, as do makes such as Steinway, or M&H.

This buyer does not have a budget of 40K, however, so tell me what new pianos, other than Asian, meet your performance criteria under 10K.

I suspect the silence will be deafening. wink

As an aside to tedmarley,

If you like the "Empire" look as Nordiska markets that style of leg, and music desk, it is found in several Asian lines.

Also to relay some info on the Nordiska, I was assured that the Nordiska line had it's own building within the plant, was the only Dongbei product with Abel hammers, and that tolerances were being held a bit closer on that label. The downside to all of this, is that the Nordiska sells for a little more than its' Hallett&Davis brothers (the last is my opinion).

An a word of advice on cabinet styles: If Mom is the player, pick the instrument first, cabinet style second. Every piano is different, even within the same line, and depending upon who prepped it at the dealers. If you don't like the touch&tone, you'll soon grow weary of the cabinet. smile


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Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318142 01/06/03 11:59 PM
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I was really stymied because I had a 10,000 budget and I really want to play a 70,000 piano. (Who doesn't) I bought mine from an individual, and luckily (or unluckily for other non-hammer parts) I was able to get it pretty acceptable. You are right about it being hard to find a non Asian good piano for under 10,00


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318143 01/07/03 02:48 PM
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Hi tedmarley!

It occured to me that perhaps considering your price range and room size . . . maybe a "higher end" vertical piano would be a worthy consideration. . .?

My family really liked the Charles Walter we had (~$5kish). Super sound and very nice cabinet. Any one else have a pick for nice vertical?

Good luck!

Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318144 01/11/03 04:02 PM
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Joachim has a good point. You might want to explore that option.


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Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318145 01/12/03 04:21 PM
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Actually, my mom has always wanted a grand, so I am not considering an upright. She currently has an upright in the room and would not be all that excited about a new upright even if it sounded 10 times better than the best concert grand.

She now knows I am buying one for her. My dad said she was so excited she stayed up until 4:00am looking over the internet. She likes the ornate (I guess that is the word for it) look of the Nordiska Imperial 185. Are there any other pianos in the under $10,000 range that have a similiar look. By the way I have a price of $7,990 for that model. I know that is just about in line with what Jolly thought it should be.

Also, does anyone know anything about Pianodisc? Does that ruin the action in a piano of this type.

Sorry for all the questions at once.

Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318146 01/12/03 07:05 PM
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Hi Ted,

Cat's out of the bag, huh? laugh

The price you've been given on the Imperial version of the Nordiska (I think that's their nomenclature)is about as good as it gets in my experience. There are other piano with similar cabinets on your list. The K&C SKG600S can be had with the round turned legs. The Weber WGS57 comes in a nice "marquetry" style cabinet, that is a bit different.

Don't get too caught up in the furniture aspect, though. Since your Mom is the player, she may absolutely hate the way the piano plays - or not. You've got several choices, you need to try them all, and let Mom pick her favorite.

As for player systems, there are two, one from QRS, and one from Pianodisc. Both are good, but many give the nod to the latter. Do a "search" on the board, and you'll find the two mentioned several times, along with pros and cons.


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Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318147 01/12/03 11:31 PM
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Jolly, let me show my ignorance by asking you if you could please explain what this means:
Quote
check out the 5'9" K&C I mentioned. Although it's still a Samick product, for some strange reason, it has a bit different scale and is single strung. To me, that gives it a bit different tone.
What exactly is "single strung"? Its got nothing to do with having or not having a duplex scale, does it? (I know what "over-strung" refers to, and "monochord", but beyond that I'm a dummy.)


Jim Volk
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Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318148 01/12/03 11:38 PM
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Jimbo,single strung means each individual string has it's own tied loop and it's own hitch-pin like the bass -strings in any regular piano. smile


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Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318149 01/13/03 02:45 PM
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Hi Jolly and others:
My mom plans on starting to make her travels, at least around St. Louis, to determine what she likes. Believe it or not, she is not big on the action of the Baldwin at our church, it feels to "tight" to her.
If we do go with a Chinese or Korean piano I know preparation is very important. Considering that, I don't know if it is proper to ask about dealers on this forum, but out of state I am dealing with AMRO in Memphis and PICKLE in Chicago. Also, can anyone recommend a well known tech in St. Louis for the follow up once it is at the house?
Ted

Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318150 01/18/03 03:47 PM
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We came across a 5 year old Knabe, which I believe is made by Samick. It is at a respectable dealer and they are offering it for $8,000.00. I have not had a tech look at it.
Opinions and information please.

Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318151 01/18/03 04:42 PM
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A five years old Knabe must likely it was made by Young Chang. That, in my opinion YC pianos are better than Samicks. Regardless if they use Renner actions and Ciressa soundboards (Samick/Knabe) they still can’t figure out how to assemble a piano with good balance in the keyboard and without a muffle tone(except for the model 172).
About the price, mmhh seems reasonable, may be you can negotiate to get it for $7000.00 OTD.

Good Luck

Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318152 01/18/03 06:54 PM
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Probably Young Chang production, made for Pianodisc. Does it have a player unit? What size is the piano? What is the finish?


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Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318153 01/18/03 07:25 PM
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Hey Jolly:
No, it does not have a player. It is a 6'1", ebony polish. I left a message with the store to get a serial number. Did Young Chang just sell the rights of the name to Samick. I saw that iyi bir piano thought the ones made by Young Chang are better. Do you agree?

Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318154 01/18/03 07:36 PM
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Samick recently bought the name from Pianodisc. The model is probably a KN-610, built in Korea by YC, for Pianodisc.

What's better vanilla, or chocolate? I think both pianos have their own quirks that crop up with age. Condition will be more important than which Korean manufacturer made the piano.

In '95, A six foot Korean probably sold for 10K, or perhaps a bit more if the buyer didn't shop hard. If the piano checks out with your tuner, for once I'm with iyi, I'd make an offer in the 6-7K range.


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Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318155 01/20/03 11:29 AM
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OK, forget the Knabe, it sold. What is the lowdown on the Samick (on the fallboard) sound boards? Apparently, they are "solid spruce" with a laminate on top and bottom. The grain of the top and bottom laminates are set in opposite direction to provide some kind of benefit. Any input.
Ted

Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318156 01/20/03 12:00 PM
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We'v talked about laminated soundboards before, should be some opinions under the search feature.

From everything I've heard and read, the major benefit of the laminated soundboard is its' resistance to splitting. The major downside to the laminated soundboard is its' loss of performance in comparison to the solid spruce type.

Does this mean that a laminated soundboard is inferior, or superior?

To my ears, especially in the small 5 footers, I can't tell the difference in laminated vs. solid. As the piano gets bigger, I think I can.

Your mother may, or may not, be able to tell any difference. It still boils down to which piano she likes best.

I understand your zeal to get a good piano, and stay within your budget. That is an admirable, and not always easy thing to do.

But your mom is not going to have a preference, until she starts playing pianos, preferrably several of them. Then, even if she likes none of them, ya'll at least have an idea of likes and dislikes, and can proceed from there. Then, if something lik the Knabe crops up, that you may be interested in, your Mom can try out the piano, and know whether it pleases her, or not. smile


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Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318157 01/20/03 12:29 PM
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Hey Jolly:
My mom went playing this weekend. She played about 25 different pianos ($7,000 to $160,000). She seemed happy with the action on just about every piano, except a Pearl River. As far as tone, she liked the pianos with a "deeper" sound, ie. she did not like the brightness of the Yamaha and she wasn't big on the Bergmann. Also, we have graduated to mostly 5'9 - 6'1" models. She might like the K&C, but it was in a room w/ a wood floor and against a glass wall (too many echoes). She did play a small 5' something Samick. She still has not played the Nordiska, a Weber or a 6'1" Samick. We have to go out of town for those.
As far as the sound board, I just wanted to make sure that was not a major flaw, etc.
What is the major difference, if any, between the pianos made by Samick. For instance: K&C, Samick, and Wurlitzer?
I hope I am not being over burdensome one the site. My questions now take up more than 1 page.
Ted

Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318158 01/20/03 12:45 PM
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To me, most Samick products are similar. I do find the K&C product, especially the 5'9" to be a bit more mellow. But for the most part, I'd choose my Samick product based on prep, and dealer, rather than by the name on the fallboard.

I think you are on the right track. Mom is starting to get an idea of what's out there, and starting to form likes, and dislikes.

What pianos, regardless of price, did she like?


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Re: Advice: Grand Piano $7-10,000
#318159 01/20/03 02:19 PM
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Hey Jolly:
She liked (regardless of price)
-A 5'8" Boston.
-A 7' Bosenborfer (I hope I spelled that correctly)
-She really likes the sound of Steinway (I wish I had the money)
-She also liked the Knabe I mentioned above (the salesman said it was a Samick/Knabe)

Here is the selection / prices we are looking at:(all include a bench, prep, 1 in house tuning,
Kohler & Campell SKG600S 5' 9" $9,950

Bergmann 5' 9" $8,395
6' 1"

Nordiska Imperial 185CM 6' 1" $7,990

Wurlitzer C173 5' 8" $10,000

Samick Empire SG185L 6' 1" $10,500

I've compared these prices with Larry Fines book, the best "deals" (assuming my mom loves the piano) is the Nordiska and Samick. The worst "deal" is the Wurlitzer.
The Weber you mentioned originally is out of our price range. The dealer is giving me a price of $14,000.
Let me know what you think of these prices.

Just a side note, I am starting to hate the salesmen. When you ask for a price and it is different every time, it leads me to believe I'm being hosed. But, on a positive note, it means I have a lot of room to bargain.
Ted

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