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It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
Pianoteq's NY Steinway D has been my go-to piano this year, so I'm happy to have finally recorded something with it:
I enjoy the sense of being able to create something musically unique and musically pleasing with Pianoteq. It feels amazingly satisfying to play and enhances my sense of musicality.
On the other hand, as I was putting the finishing touches on this, I worried about what the negative feedback would be on the tone. It's not worth recording with Pianoteq if it doesn't sound good. This tends to not be a concern in general circles but primarily on the piano forums... it still matters.
In the hands of a true master, you get a remarkable illusion like this:
My performance was captured on a Raspberry Pi 400 running the 64-bit OS. That's not the magic. The magic is: Press the On switch and you're good to go. The Pianoteq is a dedicated piano module, completely silent, and essentially invisible, as a computer should be. Just play the piano.
Pianoteq is controlled directly from the Novus using a method similar to the N1X's native control interface -- press a key on the piano. I can also control it from an iPad. Modartt just shipped a JSON-RPC API for Pianoteq that opens up wondrous possibilities for new interfaces.
Per the Phil Best method, I generally use a player perspective with no reverb other than the room's and then I replay it back with Modartt's settings for an audience perspective. Pianoteq's built-in MIDI recorder is a killer feature and it's surprising not many VIs have copied this.
I got some mixed feedback for my previous Pianoteq recording... curious if the new one changes any opinions?
Very good to see you're back navindra! We missed you.
Your performance sounds good to me. It is fun to see you learn more and more and get better.
After your example, I installed Pianoteq on a Raspberry Pi 400 for my mother who is 80 and not very technical. I thought this might work better than a standard laptop because a 'normal' computer will always require some maintenance. The Raspberry has been running flawlessly for the last 10 months. Like you say, just a button to switch it on and a button to switch it off. That's it. Always works, never had any problem. Many thanks again!
Very good to see you're back navindra! We missed you.
Your performance sounds good to me. It is fun to see you learn more and more and get better.
After your example, I installed Pianoteq on a Raspberry Pi 400 for my mother who is 80 and not very technical. I thought this might work better than a standard laptop because a 'normal' computer will always require some maintenance. The Raspberry has been running flawlessly for the last 10 months. Like you say, just a button to switch it on and a button to switch it off. That's it. Always works, never had any problem. Many thanks again!
Thank you pianogabe, and, wow, that is really great to hear! I totally agree about the laptop... I could not be happy with that either. Before Pianoteq, I started with Pi-hole on a Raspberry Pi Zero W and it has been running forever with no intervention. It's a magical thing when a computer becomes just an appliance that always works.
Navindra : good NY Steinway Recording and playing.
In pianoteq i don't like the limiter at - 12 db in most default presets with main volume at 0dB (To high...). i prefer modify the main Volume at -9dB and set limiter at -3, or set the volume at -12 dB and Disable limiter. (And after process the Piano track at -16 LUFS for mastering with izotope)
The limiter when activate make FF/FF sound synthetic. Without limiter Pianoteq is far superior than all sampled library since 7.5.2 update.
My Favorite Steinway since new 7.5.2 Pianoteq revoicing update is Steinway B, with this custum .fxp :
Regards,
Olivier F.
Mac mini M2 pro with 16 Gb - 512 internal SSD - 1+2 Tb external USB SSD for samples - order of preference : 1)VSL SYNCHRON Steinway D-274 audio chained in Pianoteq 8 for SSR resonances and noises scripted in Logic 10 DAW - 3) Ivory 3 with some tweaks 3) Pianoteq 8 Steinway B
I am really impressed Navindra. When I have more time I will have to investigate the PI400, because it is really great to have pianoteq without all the laptop, wires... you made it more user friendly. But it will be time consuming for me, and I prefer using my small amount of free time to try to progress on my piano skills... But I will come back to your thread in a future. Thank you so much for sharing, making us see the results and giving us the advice... And for your time.
Btw, very great playing. Thank you
"La critique est facile, mais l'art reste difficile"
I got some mixed feedback for my previous Pianoteq recording... curious if the new one changes any opinions?
Does my personal NY Steinway D sound good yet?
Your playing is *very* good. All the possibilities that you mention about PTQ are fantastic, I agree. On the sound itself, it bothers me that the bass is too dull (not bright enough) and the treble is too bright. Or at least so it sounds to me when compared to all the acoustic grands which I have the opportunity to listen to, in person and recorded. I have exactly the same problem in my playing. In fact I mentioned that to the modartt forum, hoping to get a "holy grail" solved, but besides the "it's the velocity curve" I got nothing.
Phil's recording suffer from the same problem. Most of the recordings at https://www.modartt.com/modeld don't, or at least not so strongly. The "F. Chopin - Fantasy in F Minor, Op. 49" has a somewhat artificial bass at the beginning, but the others are fine.
My Favorite Steinway since new 7.5.2 Pianoteq revoicing update is Steinway B, with this custum .fxp :
Sounds lovely! Thanks for the additional hints. I'll play around on my side to see the delta.
Originally Posted by Del Vento
Your playing is *very* good. All the possibilities that you mention about PTQ are fantastic, I agree. On the sound itself, it bothers me that the bass is too dull (not bright enough) and the treble is too bright. Or at least so it sounds to me when compared to all the acoustic grands which I have the opportunity to listen to, in person and recorded. I have exactly the same problem in my playing. In fact I mentioned that to the modartt forum, hoping to get a "holy grail" solved, but besides the "it's the velocity curve" I got nothing.
Thanks! I'm not sure I'm able to discern this... may just be the quality of my hearing or my sound system is coloring the tone. I was *trying* to play the left hand softer than the right hand, which will naturally result in a softer bass sound and a brighter treble.
I'll try to listen for this later... an A-B test against the Novus may help.
Btw, when I had an issue with the voicing that I couldn't resolve, I dropped a note to Modartt support and they immediately helped me resolve it after I provided a recording.
How much of this is pure fantasy ..... so far .... ?
Don, none of this is fantasy, quite the opposite. There are some further steps that do look like fantasy, but they are NOT either: Navindra controlled his Pi through VNC, using a phone/tablet as controller; so, once configured, one doesn't even need the monitor.
Just as well, because what you wanted was likely fantasy. The sort of hands-offness your post implied does not usually enter into the Linux world at this point. Simply too many points for things to go wrong.
Exactly !
There was a time I would have pursued this just for the "fun" of it.
No more.
I want devices that work right out of the box.
A "black box" ..... If you will ....
You tell me what it does and I decide if I can utilize it.
I do not want to "tweak" it here and there as needed.
Don
Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
I want devices that work right out of the box. A "black box" ..... If you will ....
For a dedicated Pianoteq "black box", the current budget Intel Celeron's are a good buy. You can expect to pay around US$250+ (or more), though if you aggressively shop you can find them for around US$200. They usually come with Windows installed or you can install Linux. For Pianoteq you only need minimum RAM (4GB) and a small SSD (less than 128GB if possible).
In order of increasing performance: Celeron N4100 Celeron J4125 (look for the GK series form factor) Celeron N5100
- All have better performance than the under US$100 enthusiast boards (Raspberry Pi 4, Odroid N2+) and I say this as someone who's happy with the performance of my Odroid N2+ as a dedicated Pianoteq sound module.
- Celeron J4125 - Look for the GK series form factor. Avoid the ones that look like a cube that you can hold in your hand like a baseball, those have problems keeping the CPU cool enough for Pianoteq; but the larger GK series boxes run nicely.
- N5100 is one of the newer Celeron's with the best performance. It can run Pianoteq with full default settings without breaking a sweat. Currently being placed mostly in laptops. I've seen a few N5100 GK series boxes, but they're still pretty rare right now.
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams.
In order of increasing performance: Celeron N4100 Celeron J4125 (look for the GK series form factor) Celeron N5100
Fantastic info. I never understood Intel's naming scheme, so it's good to see it all laid out here.
One crucial thing with the Raspberry Pi 400 is that it is fanless. Fanless design is a must for me... I cannot tolerate fan noise. How well do Celeron fanless form factors work with Pianoteq?
In order of increasing performance: Celeron N4100 Celeron J4125 (look for the GK series form factor) Celeron N5100
How well do Celeron fanless form factors work with Pianoteq?
The N4100/N5100 pull 6 watts at full load, similar to the Raspberry Pi 4/400. So the N4100/N5100 should easily run on a fanless heat sink, like the Raspberry Pi 400. Here's an N5100 computer with a fanless design. https://www.zotac.com/us/product/mini_pcs/zbox-ci331-nano-barebone
In comparison, the J4125 pulls about 10 watts, still in the range of a robust fanless heatsink and good ventilation. Though many people may be better served by a heat sink with a fan.
Notes - Differences between the Celeron lines: Celeron N - designed for low-power (embedded/mobile systems), TDP 6 watts Celeron J - designed for low-medium power (embedded/mobile systems), TDP 10 watts Celeron G - designed for high-power (desktop systems), TDP 35-60 watts
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Whoops .... no point in continuing this train of thought (Pi 400) for me.
I looked though some of the links provided by EVC2017 and it looks beyond my interest level.
When I was a young man I might have pursued it ..... not now.
There is someone who automated much of the process. I can look up the link later. That is what I used, but I still had to fix one thing by hand. All in all it was very easy, but I am a regular Linux user.
In the end though everything is installed one SD-card, so it might be an idea if Modartt just provided ready to go SD-disk images for download. Just copy the file to an SD-card, stick it in the Raspbery and off you go. You would just have to enter the license and a wifi password if you want remote access.
Pianoteq is controlled directly from the Novus using a method similar to the N1X's native control interface -- press a key on the piano. I can also control it from an iPad. Modartt just shipped a JSON-RPC API for Pianoteq that opens up wondrous possibilities for new interfaces.
although I think it should have existed from the start, this is great news indeed thanks !
Whoops .... no point in continuing this train of thought (Pi 400) for me.
I looked though some of the links provided by EVC2017 and it looks beyond my interest level.
When I was a young man I might have pursued it ..... not now.
There is someone who automated much of the process. I can look up the link later. That is what I used, but I still had to fix one thing by hand. All in all it was very easy, but I am a regular Linux user.
In the end though everything is installed one SD-card, so it might be an idea if Modartt just provided ready to go SD-disk images for download. Just copy the file to an SD-card, stick it in the Raspbery and off you go. You would just have to enter the license and a wifi password if you want remote access.
Hang on guys! Why not keep those laptops? Once they're set up you can run PTq without updating, without internet access even, and - better still -without ever switching off. Just sit down and play. And when PTq updates are available, you can d/l them so easily.
Hang on guys! Why not keep those laptops? Once they're set up you can run PTq without updating, without internet access even, and - better still -without ever switching off. Just sit down and play. And when PTq updates are available, you can d/l them so easily.
Good point, and to be honest, I still run it on a 2-in-1 laptop with touch screen myself. The main reason is that I also use other virtual instruments. However, if you just run Pianoteq, a Raspberry approach includes the following advantages:
- cheap (if you didn't already dedicate a laptop for this purpose) - no unwanted windows stuff happening in the background, so consistent latency and consistent audio quality (unlike my laptop). - very little energy use - no noise - very small (visually unobtrusive)
Just copy the file to an SD-card, stick it in the Raspbery and off you go. You would just have to enter the license and a wifi password if you want remote access.
I could see that working if Modartt were to somehow control the distro they used and keep it in harmony with both the Pi hardware as well as the Pianoteq software. Otherwise, the variability of Linux (what would otherwise be a strength) could well make this too hard or even impossible to realize
???
Modartt is already 100% in control of PTQ. The Pi hardware is also fixed in stone and changes very slowly, e.g. from Pi 3 to the Pi 4, much slower than PTQ itself. Perhaps the only variability would be the audio interface, if you decide to use an external one, but even that, they usually work out of the box and Modartt could decide to support only one or a handful and be done with it. Hence this would work just fine. In fact some third parties already do that for you, and you don't even have to wait for Modartt: just search their forum (or look at the link provided above).
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