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Joined: Mar 2019
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As the title states, I've been offered the chance to switch my VPC1 for an MP11se plus cash.

I'm a piano student, university level.

First let me give you my opinion on using this keyboard as a sidekick to my school's grand, in a high performance classical piano setting:

Save your money. No significant weight, not enough pushback, the keys basically collapse after the initial pressing. Still better than anything you can get for 1000€. In all honesty though, this isn't cutting it where I'm at. Bear in mind I train on both grands and verticals, and that's what I'm comparing it to.

I have no clue what people on Youtube are talking about with this model.

Now, the question would be: is there a quality jump within reason that would justify me paying several hundred euros for an MP11se?

Thank you.

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In my opinion, no. The quality of the action is identical, the difference is in the length of the keys. The Mp11 has slightly longer keys. I wouldn't call it a qualitative leap, but more of a detail that might mean something to someone, but I personally would never give more money for MP11se if I already own VPC1. A qualitative leap from VPC1 is if you buy a hybrid piano with realistic piano action or an acoustic one. Personally I don`t like big digital pianos (N1X, Novus etc). I have a VPC1 and the only thing I would buy after that is an acoustic piano with a silent function.

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I mostly agree with Slobajudge.

It's one thing if you have an opportunity for a great deal, or if you want built in sounds, or even if you just like the feel of the MP11SE better.

But if you are at the level where you feel limited by the capabilities of the VPC-1's "RM3 Grand II" action, I honestly question whether you'd find the similar "Grand Feel" action suddenly liberating/enabling? There are differences in feel between these actions, as well as other high-end digital actions from Roland, Yamaha and Casio, but I do think that at a certain level, they're all kind of "80% there" and the differences are all in the margins--if you find transitioning to an acoustic difficult on one, you'll likely find it difficult for similar reasons on any other. And you either get a hybrid with a real acoustic action (or a silent acoustic) to overcome it, or you deal with it and approach the digitals as another variation of action to get acclimated to as you practice.


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Switched from VPC-1 to the MP11SE simply because of the way better triple pedal unit. The action is also a bit better to play.


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I'm surprised to read this.

I'm just a self-taught amateur, but the feeling of control and every tiny nuance in my playing on my vpc1 combined with a great vst still amazes me every day. I don't feel the keys collapse after the first initial press like some other digital actions either, my old Yamaha cp33 really does that, compared to that the vpc1 does this much better. I compare it also to my upright.

But of course I don't know anything about playing technique, so I'm probably easier to please. I don't think switching to a mp11se would make you happy, you will get lighter keys, a longer pivot point and a better pedal unit. Other than that it's the same action. Maybe at your level only a hybrid would be sufficient?

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Hi there. Before you make a decision you need to lay your hands on a MP11 SE.

An experienced player like you who is working with the real thing will know that there are many different types of action in acoustics, from light to heavy... in different ways. Using a digital as a late night backup etc. then is mostly about how easy or difficult it is to transfer what you practice on the digital to an acoustic. Inevitably there is a necessity to adapt, but it will be different with any given digital.

In my own experience (I also use a VPC1 along with my grand, and I've played the GF actions in shops) the VPC1 action is a little more substantial than the GF actions, which I found to be rather on the light side. But their keys are longer to the pivot, which may be just a tad closer to a grand *with a very light action*. I am not sure whether that is where you want to be going...

If I understand the opinions of players experienced with acoustics here in the forum correctly, there is a split between those who prefer the GF actions alongside acoustic actions, and those who prefer the VPC1. (I am in the latter camp.)

Without your own first hand experience you won't be able to decide.

Of course there is also the issue of matching the action to your sound source. A lot of dissatisfaction (and difficulties with advanced practicing) can arise from a mismatch in the touch curve connecting the VPC action to its sound source. So make sure this issue is covered first...


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Tried the VPC and MP11 side by side and was very dissapointed by MP11´s action. Yes its little lighter but also slower in response. Maybe it is constructed for using organ sounds etc too. The only upgrade for the VPC would be the Millennium action of a hybrid.

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As far as slabs are concerned, VPC1 + a good VST = a very good setup, and like others have side, the next big upgrade would be one of the hybrids. I think the NV10 or NV10S from Kawai would be the next thing for you, if you are not satisfied with the VPC1.

Personally, though, I'm in love with my VPC 1. If I had the room and funds, I'd spring for an NV10S. But since both space and funds are what they are, the VPC1 is the best in this context.

Happy decision making!!!

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I agree with the above comments in that I do not think there is enough difference to justify the change.

I did play on both, and do own the MP11 (not SE, but which has the same GF action). If you already feel the VPC1 keys do not have significant weight and not enough pushback, be aware that the MP11's key touch is slightly lighter still, i.e. not quite as "meaty" if that makes any sense.

I find it hard to believe that you would think the change would be a significant improvement in the context you describe.

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Originally Posted by slobajudge
In my opinion, no. The quality of the action is identical, the difference is in the length of the keys. The Mp11 has slightly longer keys. I wouldn't call it a qualitative leap, but more of a detail that might mean something to someone, but I personally would never give more money for MP11se if I already own VPC1. A qualitative leap from VPC1 is if you buy a hybrid piano with realistic piano action or an acoustic one. Personally I don`t like big digital pianos (N1X, Novus etc). I have a VPC1 and the only thing I would buy after that is an acoustic piano with a silent function.
Originally Posted by Gombessa
I mostly agree with Slobajudge.

It's one thing if you have an opportunity for a great deal, or if you want built in sounds, or even if you just like the feel of the MP11SE better.

But if you are at the level where you feel limited by the capabilities of the VPC-1's "RM3 Grand II" action, I honestly question whether you'd find the similar "Grand Feel" action suddenly liberating/enabling? There are differences in feel between these actions, as well as other high-end digital actions from Roland, Yamaha and Casio, but I do think that at a certain level, they're all kind of "80% there" and the differences are all in the margins--if you find transitioning to an acoustic difficult on one, you'll likely find it difficult for similar reasons on any other. And you either get a hybrid with a real acoustic action (or a silent acoustic) to overcome it, or you deal with it and approach the digitals as another variation of action to get acclimated to as you practice.
Originally Posted by Tyr
Switched from VPC-1 to the MP11SE simply because of the way better triple pedal unit. The action is also a bit better to play.
Originally Posted by U3piano
I'm surprised to read this.

I'm just a self-taught amateur, but the feeling of control and every tiny nuance in my playing on my vpc1 combined with a great vst still amazes me every day. I don't feel the keys collapse after the first initial press like some other digital actions either, my old Yamaha cp33 really does that, compared to that the vpc1 does this much better. I compare it also to my upright.

But of course I don't know anything about playing technique, so I'm probably easier to please. I don't think switching to a mp11se would make you happy, you will get lighter keys, a longer pivot point and a better pedal unit. Other than that it's the same action. Maybe at your level only a hybrid would be sufficient?
Originally Posted by maurus
Hi there. Before you make a decision you need to lay your hands on a MP11 SE.

An experienced player like you who is working with the real thing will know that there are many different types of action in acoustics, from light to heavy... in different ways. Using a digital as a late night backup etc. then is mostly about how easy or difficult it is to transfer what you practice on the digital to an acoustic. Inevitably there is a necessity to adapt, but it will be different with any given digital.

In my own experience (I also use a VPC1 along with my grand, and I've played the GF actions in shops) the VPC1 action is a little more substantial than the GF actions, which I found to be rather on the light side. But their keys are longer to the pivot, which may be just a tad closer to a grand *with a very light action*. I am not sure whether that is where you want to be going...

If I understand the opinions of players experienced with acoustics here in the forum correctly, there is a split between those who prefer the GF actions alongside acoustic actions, and those who prefer the VPC1. (I am in the latter camp.)

Without your own first hand experience you won't be able to decide.

Of course there is also the issue of matching the action to your sound source. A lot of dissatisfaction (and difficulties with advanced practicing) can arise from a mismatch in the touch curve connecting the VPC action to its sound source. So make sure this issue is covered first...
Originally Posted by aphexdisklavier
Tried the VPC and MP11 side by side and was very dissapointed by MP11´s action. Yes its little lighter but also slower in response. Maybe it is constructed for using organ sounds etc too. The only upgrade for the VPC would be the Millennium action of a hybrid.
Originally Posted by David Lai
As far as slabs are concerned, VPC1 + a good VST = a very good setup, and like others have side, the next big upgrade would be one of the hybrids. I think the NV10 or NV10S from Kawai would be the next thing for you, if you are not satisfied with the VPC1.

Personally, though, I'm in love with my VPC 1. If I had the room and funds, I'd spring for an NV10S. But since both space and funds are what they are, the VPC1 is the best in this context.

Happy decision making!!!
Originally Posted by kanadajin
I agree with the above comments in that I do not think there is enough difference to justify the change.

I did play on both, and do own the MP11 (not SE, but which has the same GF action). If you already feel the VPC1 keys do not have significant weight and not enough pushback, be aware that the MP11's key touch is slightly lighter still, i.e. not quite as "meaty" if that makes any sense.

I find it hard to believe that you would think the change would be a significant improvement in the context you describe.

Thank you all for your input.

The consensus seems to indicate that it's in fact not worth my time. It also appears to be the case that I'm not getting anything that's significantly better even for three times as much money.

So with that said, I wish you all Merry Christmas or Holiday. Cheers.

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For 3 times the money of a vpc-1 I'm sure you could find a used hybrid somewhere, with a real action. Unless you really need the slab type of piano of course.

Merry Christmas! smile

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You’d have to go to an N1x to notice any difference.

I’d give the action on my VPC1 a 7/10, my N3X an 8/10. My acoustic Yamaha C6 a 10/10. The difference between the N1X and C6 is pivot length, with the pivot length on the C6 being close to a Steinway D vs the N3X to be to be that of a low end grand.

Any clavinova or other digital pianos I’ve tried would score 4/10 or less

Last edited by AlphaTerminus; 12/30/21 09:44 AM.

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Originally Posted by kanadajin
I did play on both, and do own the MP11 (not SE, but which has the same GF action). If you already feel the VPC1 keys do not have significant weight and not enough pushback, be aware that the MP11's key touch is slightly lighter still, i.e. not quite as "meaty" if that makes any sense.

I find it hard to believe that you would think the change would be a significant improvement in the context you describe.
it must be said that Kawai did advertise the GF1 as a improvement over the RM3. They replaces the RM3 in the CA63 to the GF in the CA65, praising the longer pivot bla bla bla... you can't blame anyone listening to it
even if they are still building RM3 and GF1 for some reasons, known only to them...

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Originally Posted by Nigo
it must be said that Kawai did advertise the GF1 as a improvement over the RM3. They replaces the RM3 in the CA63 to the GF in the CA65, praising the longer pivot bla bla bla... you can't blame anyone listening to it

A 2021 Toyota Camry is almost certainly an improvement over a 2020 Camry, and if you're buying a first car, it's likely the newer one will be "better." But if you have a 2020 Camry already (or a 2019), should you be upgrading your car every model year due to these improvements?

If your ultimate goal is to get as close of a driving experience to a Rolls Royce, then on paper the newer car probably gets you closer, but by how much, compared to the cost to upgrade?


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I had the VPC-1 and found it satisfyingly realistic, but since your primary complaint is about a too light action, I'll go against gospel here and suggest you check out an ancient 1980's controller keyboard by Yamaha, the KX88.

They have an extremely solid, heavier action and were the most popular controller for many years.

They can often be found on Guitar Center's used equipment page for $4-500.


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Originally Posted by Michael H
I had the VPC-1 and found it satisfyingly realistic, but since your primary complaint is about a too light action, I'll go against gospel here and suggest you check out an ancient 1980's controller keyboard by Yamaha, the KX88.

They have an extremely solid, heavier action and were the most popular controller for many years.

They can often be found on Guitar Center's used equipment page for $4-500.


LOL so if anything goes wrong with the KX88 how is he going to find the parts?

Originally Posted by Gombessa
A 2021 Toyota Camry is almost certainly an improvement over a 2020 Camry, and if you're buying a first car, it's likely the newer one will be "better." But if you have a 2020 Camry already (or a 2019), should you be upgrading your car every model year due to these improvements?

If your ultimate goal is to get as close of a driving experience to a Rolls Royce, then on paper the newer car probably gets you closer, but by how much, compared to the cost to upgrade?

VPC1 -> No voice
MP11SE -> quality voices + Some controller capabilities

I'd compare them like this:

A Subaru Forester vs a Subaru Forester XT (turbocharged engine). The first one is slow and boring as heck and the second one is actually a fun SUV to drive!


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
A 2021 Toyota Camry is almost certainly an improvement over a 2020 Camry, and if you're buying a first car, it's likely the newer one will be "better." But if you have a 2020 Camry already (or a 2019), should you be upgrading your car every model year due to these improvements?

If your ultimate goal is to get as close of a driving experience to a Rolls Royce, then on paper the newer car probably gets you closer, but by how much, compared to the cost to upgrade?

One doesn't actually drive a Rolls Royce. How demeaning! You simply must pay someone to do it for you. He'll need also, to open the doors when you arrive. . . . .


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Originally Posted by Abdol
VPC1 -> No voice
MP11SE -> quality voices + Some controller capabilities

I was responding to the actions, not the various DPs/controllers they might be used in.


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV-10

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