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#3179235 12/21/21 09:59 PM
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An ad for this device popped up on one of my feeds. It looks like it might be great for writing music, making notes on existing music in pdf files. Has anybody tried performing with it? How did you turn pages if you did? How does it compare with the competition?


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After reading about this device, my objection for myself is that you are entirely dependent on their cloud service and therefore stuck with a $7.99 (for now until they raise it) per month subscription. In other words, as long as that cloud service is functional and you continue to fork out a monthly subscription, you get to use all the features of your tablet.

If you didn't have their cloud service, you apparently would not be able to move files to and from the device, though you could still create new files.

My preference is to be able to connect my tablet directly to my computer to manage file content, with absolutely no need for dependence on any entity outside my home.

For me, ether a Microsoft Surface or a decent Samsung tablet is perfectly suitable. The connection between either of these and my computer is simply a USB cable, and then the tablet appears as a drive while connected.

I suspect that many here have bought into Apple's ecosystem with the iPad, various flavors of Mac, and the iPhone. Since I am not involved in all that, I can't comment on that technology.




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Originally Posted by TonyB
After reading about this device, my objection for myself is that you are entirely dependent on their cloud service and therefore stuck with a $7.99 (for now until they raise it) per month subscription. In other words, as long as that cloud service is functional and you continue to fork out a monthly subscription, you get to use all the features of your tablet.

If you didn't have their cloud service, you apparently would not be able to move files to and from the device, though you could still create new files.

My preference is to be able to connect my tablet directly to my computer to manage file content, with absolutely no need for dependence on any entity outside my home.

Their website has a FAQ on file transfers that says that you can transfer files across your devices using a WiFi app they have. It doesn't seem to rely on the cloud service. In addition, they say they are working on a USB transfer method.

This machine won't work for me because of two major reasons - the screen is too small, and page-turns are done by swiping, instead of having a tapping or foot-pedal functionality.

Does anybody know of an online merchant that specializes in tablets for musicians? My need seems fairly simple, but trying to figure out what to get has been frustrating. All I really need is PDF reading capability, a touchscreen big enough to show score pages at least full-size, if not larger, sufficient memory to hold a decent sized library of scores, and a foot pedal for page turns. Nice to have but not absolutely necessary would be a camera and mic, and an operating system that supported WiFi internet connectivity and Zoom. Will an inexpensive Chromebook do all that?

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Originally Posted by wr
. . .
Does anybody know of an online merchant that specializes in tablets for musicians? My need seems fairly simple, but trying to figure out what to get has been frustrating. All I really need is PDF reading capability, a touchscreen big enough to show score pages at least full-size, if not larger, sufficient memory to hold a decent sized library of scores, and a foot pedal for page turns. Nice to have but not absolutely necessary would be a camera and mic, and an operating system that supported WiFi internet connectivity and Zoom. Will an inexpensive Chromebook do all that?

Except for the Zoom requirement, all those can be handled by a Chromebook -- if someone has written the software!

. . . Chromebooks all use the Android O/S, so any software written for Android tablets should be usable on a Chromebook.

I don't know if Chromebooks are adequate for Zoom'ing good-quality audio -- e.g., what you'd want for a Zoom piano lesson. They tend to have slow CPU's, and limited USB connectivity. So using an outboard webcam, and microphone, might be impossible. (I stand to be corrected on this prejudice, if I'm wrong.)


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wr #3180080 12/25/21 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wr
a touchscreen big enough to show score pages at least full-size, if not larger
The problem is, a full size score is larger than 15" - I'm not aware of a portable device of that size. I use a 27" monitor that in effect gives me double page, 2 x 16.6" screens, i.e. larger than actual scores. No touchscreen and not portable, but I'm pretty happy with it.


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I love eInk displays and used the Sony DPT-RP1 13” display with its notepad feature for a long time, which is the same panel used in the Remarkable.

After many years, I decided to switch to a 12” iPad Pro so I could use all of Apple’s iOS apps. It’s a magical device but the Apple Pencil is very slippery on the glass screen. There is some grab on the eInk devices.

I’m still using the iPad Pro for work and not for playing the piano. I believe the Remarkable has two screens, which makes it like two pages of music.

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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by wr
. . .
Does anybody know of an online merchant that specializes in tablets for musicians? My need seems fairly simple, but trying to figure out what to get has been frustrating. All I really need is PDF reading capability, a touchscreen big enough to show score pages at least full-size, if not larger, sufficient memory to hold a decent sized library of scores, and a foot pedal for page turns. Nice to have but not absolutely necessary would be a camera and mic, and an operating system that supported WiFi internet connectivity and Zoom. Will an inexpensive Chromebook do all that?

Except for the Zoom requirement, all those can be handled by a Chromebook -- if someone has written the software!

. . . Chromebooks all use the Android O/S, so any software written for Android tablets should be usable on a Chromebook.

I don't know if Chromebooks are adequate for Zoom'ing good-quality audio -- e.g., what you'd want for a Zoom piano lesson. They tend to have slow CPU's, and limited USB connectivity. So using an outboard webcam, and microphone, might be impossible. (I stand to be corrected on this prejudice, if I'm wrong.)

Thanks for that info. I can always dig deeper to figure out the Zoom part, if I want to go this route.

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Originally Posted by cygnusdei
Originally Posted by wr
a touchscreen big enough to show score pages at least full-size, if not larger
The problem is, a full size score is larger than 15" - I'm not aware of a portable device of that size. I use a 27" monitor that in effect gives me double page, 2 x 16.6" screens, i.e. larger than actual scores. No touchscreen and not portable, but I'm pretty happy with it.

Hmm...it's interesting that you are using a 27" monitor. I'd never really given any thought to using a regular monitor for score reading on my piano (maybe because I've only seen people using tablets). Do you prop it up on the music rack without using a monitor stand? And how do you turn pages - a foot pedal?

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Originally Posted by LarryK
I love eInk displays and used the Sony DPT-RP1 13” display with its notepad feature for a long time, which is the same panel used in the Remarkable.

After many years, I decided to switch to a 12” iPad Pro so I could use all of Apple’s iOS apps. It’s a magical device but the Apple Pencil is very slippery on the glass screen. There is some grab on the eInk devices.

I’m still using the iPad Pro for work and not for playing the piano. I believe the Remarkable has two screens, which makes it like two pages of music.

The Remarkable website just mentions and shows a single 10.3" screen on their device, not two.

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Originally Posted by wr
Hmm...it's interesting that you are using a 27" monitor. I'd never really given any thought to using a regular monitor for score reading on my piano (maybe because I've only seen people using tablets). Do you prop it up on the music rack without using a monitor stand? And how do you turn pages - a foot pedal?
I just put the monitor on the piano with lid closed, i.e. the "practice mode" (although I always have the lid closed anyway). I use a screen mirroring/Miracast dongle that mirrors the display on my phone to the monitor, so to turn pages back/forth I just swipe left/right, which is still easier than turning actual paper pages.


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Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by LarryK
I love eInk displays and used the Sony DPT-RP1 13” display with its notepad feature for a long time, which is the same panel used in the Remarkable.

After many years, I decided to switch to a 12” iPad Pro so I could use all of Apple’s iOS apps. It’s a magical device but the Apple Pencil is very slippery on the glass screen. There is some grab on the eInk devices.

I’m still using the iPad Pro for work and not for playing the piano. I believe the Remarkable has two screens, which makes it like two pages of music.

The Remarkable website just mentions and shows a single 10.3" screen on their device, not two.

I’m sorry, I’m confusing the Remarkable with the GVIDO device, which has two screens:

https://www.gvidomusic.com/

Sadly, it is being discontinued:

https://www.gvidomusic.com/uploads/Notice-of-Sales-Termination-of-GVIDO.pdf

or the Padmu

https://www.padformusician.com/en/

I’m not sure how much they’re different. I believe GVIDO was first. My feeling is that a single 10.3” screen is too small and that having two screens is better than having one screen. Yes, it’s expensive but that’s to be expected.

Writing on eInk displays feels much like writing on paper. I always liked using the Sony Digital Paper at work because it was one screen that was not beaming light into my eyes. I work on a setup with three 27” monitors and a couple of 11” iPads as an iOS developer.

For piano, I use paper and Blackwing pencils, lol. I support music publishers, which means I buy music in book form so I can get it bound.

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Even with a high price, the GVIDO appears to have failed. I love my Kindle and find that I enjoy reading on eInk more than I enjoy reading on a regulZr display.

Of course, Kindles are too small for sheet music.

It would be nice if Amazon bought GVIDO and kept the technology alive. A behemoth like Amazon can support product lines that are only marginally profitable, I would think, while a small company will fail.

But, I could very well be wrong, as I am not sure that Sony will keep alive their eInk Digital Paper solution which was aimed at the deep pockets in the legal profession.

Here is a promotional video for GVIDO. The infrared sensors for page turning is a nice touch.


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I would like to draw your attention to the Screenstream app.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.dvkr.screenstream&hl=en_CA&gl=US

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/info.dvkr.screenstream/

(I personally use the one that's on f-droid, though I think they are both the same)

You run this app on your phone or tablet and then view the screen from another computer or tv or whatever; anything that has a web browser.

No hardware required.


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Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by LarryK
I love eInk displays and used the Sony DPT-RP1 13” display with its notepad feature for a long time, which is the same panel used in the Remarkable.

After many years, I decided to switch to a 12” iPad Pro so I could use all of Apple’s iOS apps. It’s a magical device but the Apple Pencil is very slippery on the glass screen. There is some grab on the eInk devices.

I’m still using the iPad Pro for work and not for playing the piano. I believe the Remarkable has two screens, which makes it like two pages of music.

The Remarkable website just mentions and shows a single 10.3" screen on their device, not two.

I’m sorry, I’m confusing the Remarkable with the GVIDO device, which has two screens:

https://www.gvidomusic.com/

Sadly, it is being discontinued:

https://www.gvidomusic.com/uploads/Notice-of-Sales-Termination-of-GVIDO.pdf

or the Padmu

https://www.padformusician.com/en/

I’m not sure how much they’re different. I believe GVIDO was first. My feeling is that a single 10.3” screen is too small and that having two screens is better than having one screen. Yes, it’s expensive but that’s to be expected.

Writing on eInk displays feels much like writing on paper. I always liked using the Sony Digital Paper at work because it was one screen that was not beaming light into my eyes. I work on a setup with three 27” monitors and a couple of 11” iPads as an iOS developer.

For piano, I use paper and Blackwing pencils, lol. I support music publishers, which means I buy music in book form so I can get it bound.

I am happy to see that music-specific products like this exist. I was hoping for something simpler, and less expensive. I don't think I need the pen/marking part of it, just a pdf display that has some kind of page turning function. But now that I've seen this, gear lust is setting in....

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Too bad the Gvido production is ending. I always like dedicated hardware/software solutions.

The general demand for e-ink never materialized. And big screens remain staggeringly expensive, principally for low yields (but also nil demand.) I think these factors surprised Amazon, Sony, Epson, etal.

Gvido might have had a chance if big panel prices dropped significantly & there were no global pandemic.

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Originally Posted by newer player
Too bad the Gvido production is ending. I always like dedicated hardware/software solutions.

The general demand for e-ink never materialized. And big screens remain staggeringly expensive, principally for low yields (but also nil demand.) I think these factors surprised Amazon, Sony, Epson, etal.

Gvido might have had a chance if big panel prices dropped significantly & there were no global pandemic.

Amazon made eInk a huge success with their Kindle line but they dropped the large panel eInk devices. They have been able to sell a large number of inexpensive eInk readers and the Kindle remains a strong product line.

For reading books, a small eInk panel has a lot of advantages over a traditional display. It’s lighter and can be easily held over your head while reading in bed. I love my Kindle and have had it for a long time.

This doesn’t help the musical score market, which is a pretty small market where there is a lot of completion from regular tablets.

Large screen yields are low, I am sure, and the prices remain high. Maybe somebody will make a go of it in the future.

Last edited by LarryK; 12/29/21 04:10 AM.
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Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by LarryK
I love eInk displays and used the Sony DPT-RP1 13” display with its notepad feature for a long time, which is the same panel used in the Remarkable.

After many years, I decided to switch to a 12” iPad Pro so I could use all of Apple’s iOS apps. It’s a magical device but the Apple Pencil is very slippery on the glass screen. There is some grab on the eInk devices.

I’m still using the iPad Pro for work and not for playing the piano. I believe the Remarkable has two screens, which makes it like two pages of music.

The Remarkable website just mentions and shows a single 10.3" screen on their device, not two.

I’m sorry, I’m confusing the Remarkable with the GVIDO device, which has two screens:

https://www.gvidomusic.com/

Sadly, it is being discontinued:

https://www.gvidomusic.com/uploads/Notice-of-Sales-Termination-of-GVIDO.pdf

or the Padmu

https://www.padformusician.com/en/

I’m not sure how much they’re different. I believe GVIDO was first. My feeling is that a single 10.3” screen is too small and that having two screens is better than having one screen. Yes, it’s expensive but that’s to be expected.

Writing on eInk displays feels much like writing on paper. I always liked using the Sony Digital Paper at work because it was one screen that was not beaming light into my eyes. I work on a setup with three 27” monitors and a couple of 11” iPads as an iOS developer.

For piano, I use paper and Blackwing pencils, lol. I support music publishers, which means I buy music in book form so I can get it bound.

I am happy to see that music-specific products like this exist. I was hoping for something simpler, and less expensive. I don't think I need the pen/marking part of it, just a pdf display that has some kind of page turning function. But now that I've seen this, gear lust is setting in....

I think I investigated adding page turning to the Sony Digital Paper product and found that it could not be done without hacking the operating system.

The remaining GVIDO units appears to be commanding high prices, I’ve seen $2500, so I don’t think there is a chance to pick one up cheap.

I think a two page display is the way to go, and so, I’ll stick to paper, as I see no other two page solution.

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If you want two pages to display at one time, can’t you use a large monitor and display two pages at once?


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If you really want to read two pages at a time, and you have lots of money - get two big ipads and link them with forscore. I have seen piano 4 hand players do this with two ipads. One player turns the pages on both devices with a pedal.

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Originally Posted by dogperson
If you want two pages to display at one time, can’t you use a large monitor and display two pages at once?

Where would I put the large monitor? My Yamaha DYUS5 has a wonderful music desk but I’m not sure I want to put a monitor on it as I could see dumping it on the keys and causing damage. Besides that, there is the issue of putting a computer somewhere.

Putting a monitor on top of my piano will give me neck strain.

The GVIDO is a far more elegant solution.

Since I stare at computer screens all day, I might just stick to paper and pencil, although, it could be nice to have everything I’m working on in a table of contents instead of shuffling through multiple books and sheets of paper.

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