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The tech jury is still split 50/50 about Dampp Chasers. 50% say they are a necessity; 50% say that they are not. Judge your actions on the advice of your tech and stop worrying.
Regards, If I were tech, I would make sure to bash Dampp Chaser at every opportunity, as the device is practically designed to make half to the tech visits unnecessary. I wouldn’t call ‘advice’ as ‘bashing’. The question was asked and answered. If you were a tech, you would know there are reasonable positions for the advice of not using the Damp Chaser. Thank goodness, most techs give advice based on their professional opinions of what is right for a particular piano not what might generate additional income for them. BTW. you are wrong that not using one always requires extra tech visits. I want to play piano that is in tune, and I would need a lot more tech visits if I had no DC system installed. I have owned pianos with and without DC system and my experience is very consistent. All my techs have said the same thing. At worst Dampp Chaser would not do anything, neither heat or humidify the soundboard, if the room RH is always good (big if there). I get a feeling that some techs think DC can harm your piano, but I do not understand how this would be possible, and frankly, think these kinds of statements are outright lies. Sorry to be so blunt here.
Shigeru Kawai SK-7
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The tech jury is still split 50/50 about Dampp Chasers. 50% say they are a necessity; 50% say that they are not. Judge your actions on the advice of your tech and stop worrying.
Regards, If I were tech, I would make sure to bash Dampp Chaser at every opportunity, as the device is practically designed to make half to the tech visits unnecessary. I wouldn’t call ‘advice’ as ‘bashing’. The question was asked and answered. If you were a tech, you would know there are reasonable positions for the advice of not using the Damp Chaser. Thank goodness, most techs give advice based on their professional opinions of what is right for a particular piano not what might generate additional income for them. BTW. you are wrong that not using one always requires extra tech visits. I want to play piano that is in tune, and I would need a lot more tech visits if I had no DC system installed. I have owned pianos with and without DC system and my experience is very consistent. All my techs have said the same thing. At worst Dampp Chaser would not do anything, neither heat or humidify the soundboard, if the room RH is always good (big if there). I get a feeling that some techs think DC can harm your piano, but I do not understand how this would be possible, and frankly, think these kinds of statements are outright lies. Sorry to be so blunt here. A PROFESSIONAL realizes that everything is not black and white, as in ‘I always use this hammer, every piano needs/doesn’t need a Damp Chaser’. They have the training and experience to realize every piano is different. No matter how many pianos we have owned, we can’t replicate that. To call techs who don’t recommend the Damp Chaser for every piano a liar? Pretty incredible and a sign of lack of discriminatory judgement.
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I think in this thread, everyone commenting should say at least roughly where they live, bc that makes a huge difference in your needs, and also in the etch’s advice.
As for being harmless, doesn’t installing a DC require attaching it the the piano? It’s not completely neutral in that regard, and my tech actually said “I get why you wouldn’t want to install one on this piano”
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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I think in this thread, everyone commenting should say at least roughly where they live, bc that makes a huge difference in your needs, and also in the etch’s advice.
As for being harmless, doesn’t installing a DC require attaching it the the piano? It’s not completely neutral in that regard, and my tech actually said “I get why you wouldn’t want to install one on this piano” I think anyone looking to make a decision on a Damp Chaser should discuss with his tech. Location is not the only consideration.
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Pianos will go in and out of tune as the humidity changes, yes.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that constant and rapid swelling and shrinking of the wood fibers is what the potential danger is, that this expanding and shrinking can lead to "fatigue" in the wood. If that is so, I would love to see some real numbers on percent change in humidity and over what period of time before swinging back is reasonable. Here you go, this will work for starters. www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fpl_gtr190.pdfChapter IV is interesting.
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A PROFESSIONAL realizes that everything is not black and white, as in ‘I always use this hammer, every piano needs/doesn’t need a Damp Chaser’. They have the training and experience to realize every piano is different. No matter how many pianos we have owned, we can’t replicate that. To call techs who don’t recommend the Damp Chaser for every piano a liar? Pretty incredible and a sign of lack of discriminatory judgement. First of all, you misread my post. And second, your only argument against DC seems to be argumentum ab auctoritate. The physics of piano, room humidity and DC are pretty simple and well known, I would be happy to hear your experience with these. If someone does not want those small holes drilled to his piano (to attach DC system), now that's an argument.
Shigeru Kawai SK-7
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Pianos will go in and out of tune as the humidity changes, yes.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that constant and rapid swelling and shrinking of the wood fibers is what the potential danger is, that this expanding and shrinking can lead to "fatigue" in the wood. Yeah, I would imagine that "constant" and "rapid" would definitely make things much worse. The other thing I've heard is that excessive and long-term drying can be really bad, whereas a few rainy days here and there aren't so much to worry about... BTW brdwyguy, I know what you mean about how the sound can be much better in a sort of humidity sweet spot. My piano is pretty robust but I can tell when it's just a little too dry or too humid. Yes, I've read that, too, that dry is worse than wet. We can have some pretty wild swings in temperatures and humidity here. Right now it's warm and humid and I have the dehumidifier going. By tomorrow (if the weather forecast is correct) we'll be headed back down in temperature and humidity and the furnace will be kicking in. I have the tuner coming next week, so I sure would like something stable between now and then. We have a humidifier on our furnace, which helps a lot in the winter, both for our own comfort and for the piano. However, if it's cold and the furnace is running a lot, it won't keep the RH in the piano room in a decent range, so I have a small humidifier that I can run and I also I use some of the same passive humidifying techniques you use. Stubbie, you might find this post from Ed interesting https://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthr...piano-s-tonal-character.html#Post3172290Yes, I recall that recent thread. I've had occasion where I both hear and feel the results of too high humidity. In my mind, I put changes in RH in two categories: (1) where it is a nuisance, such as the tuning going in and out (though too much of this is more than a nuisance), and (2) where it might actually do harm, such as in too dry and resulting in cracks, perhaps. I try to prevent no. 2 and mitigate no. 1, as I have the time and inclination to do so.
Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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I think in this thread, everyone commenting should say at least roughly where they live, bc that makes a huge difference in your needs, and also in the etch’s advice.
As for being harmless, doesn’t installing a DC require attaching it the the piano? It’s not completely neutral in that regard, and my tech actually said “I get why you wouldn’t want to install one on this piano” I think anyone looking to make a decision on a Damp Chaser should discuss with his tech. Definitely, I agree with this. Yes, there are techs who install DCs and so stand to profit, but the techs I've spoken to directly are clearly not motivated by profit in how they discuss the options. Location is not the only consideration. No, of course not. But a lot of people say "here's what I do" with the implication that others should consider doing the same -- I'm sure I'm guilty of this kind of post as well. And indeed, learning what works for others is a highly relevant way of deciding what to do oneself. But that kind of info needs to be coupled with location and climate info in order for anyone else to judge how relevant it is for themselves.
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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I put changes in RH in two categories: (1) where it is a nuisance, such as the tuning going in and out (though too much of this is more than a nuisance), and (2) where it might actually do harm, such as in too dry and resulting in cracks, perhaps. I try to prevent no. 2 and mitigate no. 1, as I have the time and inclination to do so. This is such a helpful way to put it! And although I hadn't articulated it that way, my goal is definitely seek to prevent actually harm and mitigate nuisance, while recognizing that I can't do everything.
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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... a lot of people say "here's what I do" with the implication that others should consider doing the same -- I'm sure I'm guilty of this kind of post as well. And indeed, learning what works for others is a highly relevant way of deciding what to do oneself.
But that kind of info needs to be coupled with location and climate info in order for anyone else to judge how relevant it is for themselves. Agree. Same for discussions about dust covers and such. The amount of dust floating around can vary tremendously from location to location. How airtight your home is is a factor as well.
Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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The tech jury is still split 50/50 about Dampp Chasers. 50% say they are a necessity; 50% say that they are not. Judge your actions on the advice of your tech and stop worrying.
Regards, If I were tech, I would make sure to bash Dampp Chaser at every opportunity, as the device is practically designed to make half to the tech visits unnecessary. I wouldn’t call ‘advice’ as ‘bashing’. The question was asked and answered. If you were a tech, you would know there are reasonable positions for the advice of not using the Damp Chaser. Thank goodness, most techs give advice based on their professional opinions of what is right for a particular piano not what might generate additional income for them. BTW. you are wrong that not using one always requires extra tech visits. I want to play piano that is in tune, and I would need a lot more tech visits if I had no DC system installed. I have owned pianos with and without DC system and my experience is very consistent. All my techs have said the same thing. At worst Dampp Chaser would not do anything, neither heat or humidify the soundboard, if the room RH is always good (big if there). I get a feeling that some techs think DC can harm your piano, but I do not understand how this would be possible, and frankly, think these kinds of statements are outright lies. Sorry to be so blunt here. Controllers can fail, switches can stick. It wouldn't be good for your dampchaser (or any other equivalent device) to go on dehumdifying your piano at full blast when it was already too dry. Some people also have concerns about the dampchaser causing damage to the soundboard because it dehumdifies one side and hence there is a moisture gradient developed across the soundboard - which would not be the case with room based humidity control. I'm not saying those views are correct or not, nor whether the risks are significant but things aren't black and white and folks can have their differing genuine opinions without lying coming into it.
Last edited by gwing; 12/16/21 12:34 PM.
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Wouldn't buying a normal dehumidifier for the whole room be at least as good if not better than a damp chaser, although possibly more expensive to run?
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A whole-room dehumidifier is noisy, heats the room, and needs to be either drained daily or a drain line run to an outlet.
There is an element of somewhat active monitoring as part of DC ownership, though. I've also seen the sensors not detect the pads are dry (usually when dirty), and the majority of pianos I service which have one (I don't sell/install the systems, but I have ordered replacement parts when requested) are not properly monitored by the owners. The majority of owners don't service the pads frequently enough (6-12 months, depending on the water you use, and most owners don't service their pianos this often) to the point they're not wicking water anymore and caked with mineral residue. In institutional environments, they get unplugged all the time and never powered back on. I have also seen systems that were not installed particularly well (which could either damage the piano, the DC equipment, or not result in the desired humidity ranges), and there are instances where manufacturers no longer recommend them (Steinway), and designs where they inherently won't work all that well (Mason & Hamlin with the tension resonator).
There's no "correct" answer to this question. I think the DC helps in certain situations, and it's not as helpful in others. And the owners/servicing techs need to stay on top of the systems if they're being used.
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The thing that concerns me is my recollection is here on PianoWorld probably around 2004-2006 or so, one PW member posted saying mold or mildew had developed on the bottom of his piano soundboard and he had a dampchaser.
That surely must be an extremely uncommon and unusual occurence, but still, it scared the heck out of me and turned off of the idea of installing a dampchaser.
The other thing is, as terminaldegree talks about, is these systems must be maintained. Is this made common knowledge to those who get a dampchaser system installed? I heard that dampchaser systems should be serviced regularly, be calibrated to ensure they are working properly, here on PW, again, in some old PW thread. But this is not something I think is really well known.
Then there's the question of wondering how many technicians know how to calibrate the system...
and how often piano owners just let their pianos go for longer periods of time between tunings than is recommended/optimal and so the damp chaser would not get serviced as often as is recommended either.
There has been mega amounts of discussion here on PW over the years about dampchasers. As has been said here in this thread - there are the naysayers and the devotees.
I think the dampchaser system could be a great thing to have, but being an ultra-cautious type of individual, I'd rather take what I consider a different "safer" route.
I first had an Air-O-Swiss Air Washer. That lasted at good 10 years or so. I think they're out of business now - or at least do not still manufacture the Air-O-Swiss Washer models. I remember I couldn't buy another when my first one stopped working, so when it crapped out (about 2 years ago), I purchased a Venta.
I like the Venta. I also have the Venta that requires me to manually decide when to turn it on/off.
Jeanne W
Last edited by Jeanne W; 12/16/21 01:29 PM.
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And if you take DC unit and start whacking your piano with it, it will damage the piano. Not to be missed!
Shigeru Kawai SK-7
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If the Dampp Chaser system was really as beneficial as some want you to believe.
Why don't manufacturers make their own version and install it for a premium?
When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.
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If the Dampp Chaser system was really as beneficial as some want you to believe.
Why don't manufacturers make their own version and install it for a premium? I’m also curious why Steinway no longer recommends them.
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If the Dampp Chaser system was really as beneficial as some want you to believe.
Why don't manufacturers make their own version and install it for a premium? I’m also curious why Steinway no longer recommends them. My tech told me that he thought it was because Steinway believes that all of their customers are so smart, and so rich, that they’re able to maintain the perfect environment for their expensive pianos. Nothing could be further from the truth. In one word, arrogance.
Last edited by LarryK; 12/16/21 07:54 PM.
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If the Dampp Chaser system was really as beneficial as some want you to believe.
Why don't manufacturers make their own version and install it for a premium? I’m also curious why Steinway no longer recommends them. My tech told me that he thought it was because Steinway believes that all of their customers are so smart, and so rich, that they’re able to maintain the perfect environment for their expensive pianos. Nothing could be further from the truth. In one word, arrogance. But they apparently recommended Dampp Chasers previously and their customers didn't all of a sudden get smart and rich.
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If the Dampp Chaser system was really as beneficial as some want you to believe.
Why don't manufacturers make their own version and install it for a premium? I’m also curious why Steinway no longer recommends them. My tech told me that he thought it was because Steinway believes that all of their customers are so smart, and so rich, that they’re able to maintain the perfect environment for their expensive pianos. Nothing could be further from the truth. In one word, arrogance. But they apparently recommended Dampp Chasers previously and their customers didn't all of a sudden get smart and rich. I found one explanation on the internet from a Steinway tech, not Steinway corporate. The statement was that the DC effects do not reach te pin block. I have no idea of the validity
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