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#317496 10/26/06 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by Colin Crawford:
I tuned one of those recently. Better pianos came out of the Soviet Union!
Insert obligatory: "In Soviet Russia, piano voices you!" ? smile

#317497 10/26/06 05:03 PM
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"This pianos come from automatic factory in Arctic Circle!" (page K)


G.Colin Crawford MPTA
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#317498 10/27/06 04:34 AM
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Steve Cohen:

I am interested to learn more about piano engineering, could you plese explain what is meant by too heavy a backpost assembly for the scale. Too heavily ribbed is an obvious cause of bad or dead sound.

Som German piano builders are very proud of their sturdy backposts (wooden frame or support for soundboard, iron frame, and cabinet) as it is supposed to give longevity to the piano and increase tuning stability, altuong there are American builder that do without any backposts (on uprights).

May be it is more the way you connect the soundboard to the rest of hte piano that matters - the small details, or tricks to be used to get a good result?

#317499 10/27/06 08:12 PM
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Know nothing about this brand. Any advice?
Here are some facts and info I have got from web pages in Japan lang and literatures.

FACT1: I had had a Tokai electric upright piano for ten years more than 20 years ago. This piano has no soundboard, instead it has tranducers on the bridge, an amplifier and a speaker. I decided to buy this piano because this was the only electric piano that has strings and real hammers.

FACT2: I have never seen Tokai grands. I see used uprights in the web ad.s these days but never seen grands.

FACT3: I have never heard anyone in Japan saying Tokai is worse than Yamaha.

INFO: According to seemingly reliable sources, Tokai has been establied since 1947 by ex-Kawai engineers, had been producing cembalos, light upright pianos and electric upright pinaos in the past.

My Interest:
I saw a Tokai grand in the Pictures thread and am wondering who made or forged that one.

#317500 10/28/06 12:21 AM
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They were photos of the 6'1" Tokai I had. Nothing forged about it. smile

#317501 10/28/06 03:00 AM
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Originally posted by masaki:
[QUOTE]I had had a Tokai electric upright piano for ten years more than 20 years ago. This piano has no soundboard, instead it has tranducers on the bridge, an amplifier and a speaker. I decided to buy this piano because this was the only electric piano that has strings and real hammers.
No it's not!

There was the Kawai Electric upright EP705, and EP308 grand, the Yamaha CP50 upright, and most famously, the Yamaha CP70, CP80, CP70B, CP80B, and for the ultimate, the MIDI-out equipped CP70M and CP80M.


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#317502 10/28/06 06:44 AM
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97fingers,
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They were photos of the 6'1" Tokai I had. Nothing forged about it.
I have made a intensive web search, and found that there were indeed Tokai grands. Sorry for the confusion.
I had been believing, until I found the web page, Tokai discontinued producing pianos in early 1980s, but it seems they were producing or at least carrying grands.

http://pianobusters.com/piano/siryositu/pianosize/tokai.htm

According to this web page, 180cm-long ebony-finish grands were bein produced in 1984 and list priced jpy1,500,000, which was more expensive than Yamaha C3 in that period. I am still wondering who built them.

#317503 10/28/06 06:49 AM
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Colin Crawford,
 Thank you very much for the info. As I know of, Tokai introduced the electric piano in 1975. Yamaha introduce in 1976. Am I correct? Do you know when did Kawai inroduce their electric piano?

#317504 10/28/06 06:58 AM
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According to Tokai Gakki(means Tokai Musical Instruments) web page, their products are The Best Musical Products in the World.
Unfortunately, they are not currently producing Pianos. Number of employees is 50.

#317505 10/28/06 07:00 AM
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Tokay web page is here.

http://www1.odn.ne.jp/tokaigakki/

#317506 10/28/06 07:30 AM
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Hello Masaki,

Yes, Yamaha introduced the CP range in '76, but they were incredibly expensive, and used mainly by touring bands and rock groups. They were not really styled for the domestic market, being covered in black Tolex fabric and contained no internal speaker or amplifier. I think the Kawai followed in the early 1908s, so for a very short time maybe the Tokai was the only one available if they were on sale in '75!

The expense of the CP70 and CP80 meant that most have a celebrity history. Of the few that I tune regularly, one is ex-Supertramp, and I've recently heard that Gary Numan's CP70 unused since 1981 has just been unearthed. My own CP80 was owned by the cheeky Cockney crooner of the 1970s, David Essex!


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#317507 10/29/06 03:14 AM
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Hello Colin,
You are an electric piano maniac. Aren't you?
Yes, CP70 or 80(I do not remeber which is which) and Rhodes pianos costed four times as much as Tokai electric. There were another electric pianos available at affordable prices. They were made by Japan Columbia and costed same as ones by Tokai.
I guess David Essex is a great musician, but I am ashamed of sayin that I do not know who he is. Though, I know only few British artists such as Geral Finzi, RR Bennett, and Keith Emerson.

#317508 10/29/06 03:43 AM
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Hi Masaki!

Yes, I do rather like electric pianos, especially the type with strings and hammers. I've just remembered that in the 1960s, there was a predecessor to all of these Japanese electrics built in England which also had strings and hammers, called the Eavestaff Minilectro. Of course the very first was the Siemens Neo-Bechstein , but that's another story for another thread !

No, David Essex is not a great musician!!.... Certainly not in the Keith Emerson league!!

I have the good fortune to live very close to the Finzis' home village of Painswick in the Cotswolds, and some years ago as a boy chorister at Gloucester Cathedral was introduced to much of Gerald's music. Around the same time, I also sang in the World Premieres of RR Bennett's "Spells" and "Five Mystical Songs"! What excellent taste you have! wink


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#317509 10/30/06 09:39 AM
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Colin!
I have really enjoyed looking at the Siemens Neo-Bechstein photo. That looks very expensive. My Tokai had very small only 3-4 transducers which looked like an industry-standard component. Thanks for the photos.
Finzi is my 18-year old daughter's taste than I. Thank you very much for the words anyway. She will play his 2-piano version of Eclogue, Op10 in a few weeks at the school concert.

#317510 10/30/06 10:20 AM
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A local church here in Denver I recently visited has a 7'ish Tokai grand on the floor. I tried it with the big heavy lid down. The touch and sound is excellent. The touch weight happens to be on the slighly heavy side which is much to my preference. I'm curious as to the quality of this beast. My first impression is really good!

#317511 11/01/06 03:23 AM
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They make a very nice Gibson Les Paul replica.


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#317512 11/06/06 12:32 PM
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Hi everyone... just recently found this discussion when searching the net for info on Tokai.

It sounds like many of you have had mixed results... but I wanted to add my own experience.

I purchased a 6'1" Tokai Grand about 2 years ago. I bought it from the local Steinway dealer, as it had (according to the sales rep) been traded in on a Steinway Grand.

I had not heard of the brand when I saw it, but it seemed to be priced fairly, and the dealer spoke with respect of the brand. He also had several new Chinese grands available in the same price range.

Honestly, it had one of the richest and fullest sounds and most responsive and consistent actions among the pianos available. I shopped in several stores to compare, and couldn't find anything in that price range that even came near the sound that it produced.

I'm certainly not a professional pianist... just done my share of playing songs i like, church accompaniment, etc.... But I've been very impressed with this piano. And it hasn't let me down yet. The cabinet is beautiful, a satin ebony, with just the right amount of aged sheen to make it look like a comfortable part of my home.

To me, it all seems to boil down to whether you like the sound it produces, the way the keys feel to your fingers, and whether the particular piano is in good working order.

To the original poster in this discussion... it sounds like you don't like the particular Tokai very much... then you should pass. Wait until you find one that make you happy! And good luck!

#317513 12/31/08 10:51 PM
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I use to play a tokai upright for twenty years now : i like it : it is my friend and i have made a lot of progress on it. I believe tokai is a huge manufactory in hamamatsu, the city where japonese pianos are made. They work for others, but make there own cheap instruments too. In the 80s, they made some pianos, and stopped fastly. The piano i own is a good as sound, fiability (it lived a lot of things in 20 years), and power. It had award on the french musical press (but i don't know if that means anything). One has to campare it to a kawai or a yamaha, firms Tokai work for.
but i don't know nothing about the grands.

#317514 01/01/09 12:18 AM
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the Yamaha CP50 upright...
CP60, actually. Very few in captivity. When the band that had one asked me if I had ever heard of it before they asked me to tune it and I said no, they said that was 5 for 5.


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#317515 01/02/09 11:50 AM
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All,
I'm kicking this thread back up to the top again since I didn't see a posting by the one person that should be commenting on a Tokai. How about it Rickster? Care to set the record straight? Happy 2009 BTW!!!
Woody


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