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Many posters on this forum seem to recommend used Baldwins or rebuilt Baldwins for both their quality and low price. If they are as good as many say, why are they often priced so low?

I'm getting deja vu...

Why do used Baldwins seemed to sell for less than...

I thought I had responded in that last thread. I'll share some of my own thoughts here later.

Haha. Well it's not the first time some question pops into my mind, and I don't remember I previously posted about it.

Beats me. Baldwins were excellent: my music school bought a fleet of them outright (they had been renting) during the "bad years" for another famous company, right when that one had been sold.

My only complaint was Baldwin grands, right from the factory, tended to have a more shallow key dip than standard. You had to adjust to a feeling of "less room."

Among the more "serious" types, Baldwin's image might have been hurt by the association with Liberace and Lawrence Welk, which accounts for the underpricing.

It was always my impression that Baldwins were priced significantly lower than Steinways when new.


Also found this....

"Here's a listing of BALDWIN artists who were not paid to endorse the piano but chose it as their own preferred piano. All these artists are now deceased but it is interesting to view the list.

Peter Allen • Claudio Arrau (early on) • Wilhelm Backhaus • Bela Bartók • Count Basie • Harold Bauer • Sir Thomas Beecham • Leonard Bernstein • Jussi Björling • Jorge Bolet • Benjamin Britten • Emerson Buckley • Aaron Copland • Ernst von Dohnányi • Eddie Duchin • Bill Evans • Arthur Fiedler • Erroll Garner • Walter Gieseking • Alberto Ginastera • Eugene Goosens • John Green • Johana Harris • Natalie Hinderas • Lorin Hollander • José Iturbi • Paul Jacobs • Serge Koussevitsky • Ruth Laredo • Josef Lhevinne • Rosina Lhevinne • Liberace • Adele Marcus • Eduardo Mata • Marian McPartland • Darius Milhaud • Benno Moiseiwitch • Pierre Monteux • Charles Munch • Eugene Ormandy • Vladimir de Pachmann • Leonard Pennario (early on) • Gregor Piatigorsky • Ezio Pinza • Francis Poulenc • Ottorino Respighi • Edwin Romain • Moriz Rosenthal • Max Rudolf • Leonard Shure • Sir Georg Solti • Igor Stravinsky • Soulima Stravinsky • Joseph Szigeti • Virgil Thomson • Werner Torkanowsky • Richard Tucker • Lawrence Welk • Mary Lou Williams • Earl Wild • Teddy Wilson • Eugene Ysaye

I believe that pianist Beveridge Webster also endorsed Baldwins.

It's not so complicated. Why does a used Toyota have more value than a used Chevy. even if the Chevy was a Toyota model made for Chevy? Why does a used Yamaha demand more than a used Kawai? Why does almost every made in China piano pretend it's German this, German that?

Perception

Early post war Baldwins, in good condition are a bargain for a top level piano. Pass it on.

I cannot believe it!
Imagine if Liberace knew that so many years after he died someone could actually suggest that he was as such an awfull person that he could have damaged the reputation of Baldwin pianos to such a degree that they can only now be sold now at a low price.All can say is I am glad my aunt Isabelle and her group of friends are gone from this world.😉

You show an enormous amount of ignorance about the popularity of Liberace both as a pianist and an entertainer.He had an army of then middle aged ladies who adorred him as an artist.I find it sad that someone can suggest such thing!
With the same Iogic I suppose the Yamaha model Elton John has performed on has been downgraded?

One of the true and wonderful things about Princess Diana is that she held the hands of dying Aids patients at a time when no one knew it was safe to do so.She was a true humanitarian.I find it interesting that you give so much power to a to a harmless artist who is no longer is alive..

Are you absolutely sure used Yamahas sell for more than used Kawai pianos...always? This is simply not true.

It might be because Steinway did such a vigorous job of grabbing soloists and concert halls early on. Once Rubinstein and Horowitz put their apparent approval stamp on, it was hard to argue that there is an alternative. At least among the bourgeois record collectors who furnished some of the nicest living rooms. Baldwin did try to catch up by becoming the 'official piano' of various orchestras, such as the Boston Symphony. For whatever reason, that gave the impression that they were also-rans. Knabe also provided the piano for the Metropolitan Opera quiz-- nobody I know ever thought that meant it was good.

Erich Leinsdorf talked about the political issues with booking soloists. He'd go through his season with the artistic admin guy, who would then cough gently and remind him that they really should have at least one pianist who used a Baldwin. For the rest of the concerto nights, you'd have a note in the program that Baldwin was the official piano of the BSO, but that Mr X used the Steinway. I can't remember if they still did that when I was at Tanglewood. There were scads of pianos in practice rooms out on our campus, which got sold off at the end of the summer. Part of the sponsorship, whoever was offering it.

When I was a kid going to a small music school outside NYC (not the Juilliard pre-college track), it was taken as given that Steinways were the best. If a Baldwin was around-- even the main instrument on the stage, I can't remember-- I more or less assumed that it wasn't as good. Not that I would have been curious enough or skilled enough to test it out and draw my own conclusion. Mason & Hamlins were relics, and European pianos were somewhat exotic.

My intention on this thread was not really to have a comparison between Baldwin and Steinway, which is how several posters answered. My impression, based on other's posts, is that used Baldwins are often of very high quality are extremely low priced compared to their quality (not just compared to used Steinways).

IOW, forgetting about any comparison with Steinway, if their quality is as high as some think, why are their prices so low? In the age of the internet, it would seem that more people would know that these pianos have a very good quality to price ratio so that the pianos would start increasing in price.

Actually both Liberace and Lawrence Welk commanded quite a following when I was growing up. If anything, those men enhanced Baldwin’s reputation in the ‘60’s. Bruce Hornsby was a Baldwin Artist and I loved his his ballads and playing. I had a Baldwin upright and love the Baldwin sound.

Baldwin was a well known and well loved American piano. I hope the Chinese owners can bring the Baldwin piano back to it’s previous place in the piano market. I’ve heard but haven’t tried the new Baldwins. The word is the new Baldwin’s are doing well.

My 2 cents. I also wish Story&Clark pianos could be brought back to their former glory.

Not a silly consideration, though, comparing to Steinway. If people don’t trust the brand as much, they won’t bother to find out. Even if they do, there is history to overcome.

Consider wine. Château Margaux is a first-growth Bordeaux, and very expensive. Château Palmer is from the same commune, with much the same style and quality. But it is a third growth, based on wholesale prices in 1855. So it is expensive, but at a very different level.

There are occasional years when critics say Palmer outdoes Margaux. And its auction prices will rise for that year. But probably not as high as Margaux from that year. And not permanently high. Even if its quality rose disproportionately, the man on the street recognition wouldn’t be there, among the investment bankers and media tycoons who need to carry the badge, and sustain the seemingly absurd prices.

Yet you can become equally inebriated from either brand regardless of quality.

Or deafened by pretty much any piano, if you listen closely enough.

Geesh! I stirred up the pot on this one.

This was magnificent: now complain about the decal on the fallboard being too big!

Do you buy and sell or trade pianos for a living? Or is this an Internet Expert (tm) opinion?:

😃 😀 😄 😁

I may add I have tried American Baldwins with the most gorgeous tone.I have played some new Steinway grands and I was not been awed by them at all. In a high end dealer I played a truly wonderful rebuilt Baldwin R which was an excellent piano, gorgeous tone excellent action.Years ago I played a wonderful Steinway D.
People who remember the iconic Baldwin are no longer all that young.Younger people will often buy a Yamaha or Kawai, or if they have the money a Steinway or a European piano.Good for them!

Just because they never knew the wonder of American Baldwins...they will think no further.That is something unfortunate about time...it changes perceptions, or people just forget..that does not mean you just have to buy a Yamaha.

There was a period of time when Baldwin, still being made in the US, tried to compete with significantly lower priced, lower quality pianos being made in Indonesia and South Korea. This adversely affected Baldwin’s reputation and still may be a factor today.