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#3167146 10/29/21 02:53 PM
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https://getpocket.com/explore/item/...ay-music-sounds?utm_source=pocket-newtab

he biggest development is the expansion from 7-bit values to 32-bit values

It means that instead of 128 steps for features like volume, there will now be billions

More memory should also reduce the chance of the timing between playing a MIDI instrument and digital recording to be slightly off.

Another major advancement is that MIDI 2.0 is that it allows for bi-directional communication between devices.

Now, this could make Pianoteq very interesting. SOmeday. Maybe or maybe not.

Ron

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Originally Posted by ronlefebvre
It means that instead of 128 steps for features like volume, there will now be billions
Interesting ... but one wonders about addressability


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midi hi-res is already supported by Pianoteq. some keyboards like the rd 2000 can use midi hi-res. so you have 16000 velocity values instead of 128.

Perhaps there are some other good reasons for midi 2.0 .


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Yes, Hires velocity is already possible but very few systems are compatible.

A better good reason could be DAW integration enhancement. MIDI2.0 specifies the way a DAW could get the sound list of a synthesizer, gets its controls list, then can display a panel which presents the synthesizer controls, save their values in the composition file. This is made possible only trough a dedicated VST when it is available.

But for this to happen, we would have to wait for MIDI2.0 control handling supported by both the synthesizer and the DAW… in other words : we should be (very) patient.


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But for this to happen, we would have to wait for MIDI2.0 control handling supported by both the synthesizer and the DAW… in other words : we should be (very) patient.

Presonus Studio One is my bet for the first to get this done.


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Logic seems to already support midi 2.0.


"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein
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Roland still states MIDI 2.0 features are "coming soon" for the A-88mk2 model.

https://www.roland.com/us/products/a-88mk2/

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A lesser-known DAW, MultitrackStudio, has adopted it also - at least in part.

https://cdm.link/2021/03/midi-2-0-in-a-daw-multitrackstudio-adds-mpe-and-new-midi-standard/

Hopefully the adoption of it into Logic will help get the ball rolling. I think MIDI 2.0 was announced close to two years ago.

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Yep! The protocol specification is available for download (in pdf) from the MMA web site.
Oh! BTW. It doesn't work over the old MIDI Din plug connections.
Oh well, never mind, just chuck away all the old gear with DIn connectors.

The only interconnect announced so far is USB.
So if I want to connect one keyboard to another? Via a computer or a special "USB Host device".
Only trouble is there aren't any MIDI 2 Host devices yet. Never mind.

Now I want to be able to alter expression via a controller. Current controllers give about 24 clicks per turn.
So currently to go from 0 to 127 I need 127/24=about 5 full turns.
Up the count to 16 bit (rather than 7) gives 65535/24=2730 turns. (I'm fairly certain I'd lose count (or get bored) somewhere along the way!)
And that's just 16 bit, just how the heck do I implement a control for 32 bits?

Okay, no matter, so now I want store a new MIDI 2 spec. file.
Sorry, the specification hasn't been published yet. (Check it yourself.)

...

But hang on a minute, isn't there a way to get 14 bit values for all of the MIDI controllers numbers 0 to 32 in MIDI 1.0?
Yep, just use the LSB value by using controllers 32 to 64 ... tsk, simples!
And can't I get high resolution note on messages already in MIDI 1.0?
Yep, that 's there too.

Will manufacturers take it up?
Well, many can't (won't) even implement 14 bit pitch bend on their top keyboards, so what hope 32 bit (even if I needed it)?

So the reason for MIDI 2.0 is ... ?


...


...


42?

Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

But, okay, just my P.O.V.
Sorry to rain on your parade.


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afaik... one of the requirements is that 2.0 is backward compatibility

"...while carefully protecting backward compatibility."

Originally Posted by JLG
Yep! The protocol specification is available for download (in pdf) from the MMA web site.
...So the reason for MIDI 2.0 is ... ?
...
But, okay, just my P.O.V.
Sorry to rain on your parade.

Wanting to have more resolution velocities (hi-res), more oscillators, longer midi messages(more bits) should not be dismissed as wanton excess but rather a long awaited natural evolution of the MIDI spec to have "greatly improved Per-Note control and much more musical expression."
Until then enjoy your MIDI 1.0 DPs, VSTIs, and DAWs, learn it well...

Last edited by josh_sounds; 11/04/21 10:51 AM.

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Thanks for the response, Josh.

Backward compatibility?
In this case it means MIDI 1 can co-exist within a MIDI 2.0 system.
Well, thank goodness otherwise we'd be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Sadly, though, the backward compatibility doesn't extend to MIDI 2.0 across the old Din sockets.

We already have extra resolution with using MIDI 1.0 LSB on all 32 controllers.
This, if used, would give us 14 bit resolution or more than 16,000 steps. Not enough?
You don't respond to my question about how, practically, to implement 16, let alone 32 bit controllers.

Longer messages introduces more MIDI transmission latency. Do you want that?

More controllers? The currently defined ones are shown below (from table 3 of the MIDI 1.0 spec.).
There are currently 16 undefined controllers, plus 4 general purpose ones. We're not using them, why on earth not?
How many more do you want?
Why do we need more when we're not using the full capability of the current standard?

0 00H Bank Select
1 01H Modulation wheel or lever
2 02H Breath Controller
3 03H Undefined
4 04H Foot controller
5 05H Portamento time
6 06H Data entry MSB
7 07H Channel Volume (formerly Main Volume)
8 08H Balance
9 09H Undefined
10 0AH Pan
11 0BH Expression Controller
12 0CH Effect Control 1
13 0DH Effect Control 2
14-15 0E-0FH Undefined
16-19 10-13H General Purpose Controllers (#'s 1-4)
20-31 14-1FH Undefined

I've been using MIDI since the late eighties and would love to see more reasonably priced controllers that actually used ALL of the MIDI 1 spec.
Give me a pitch bend wheel that actually uses all 14 bits of the current standard.

A little while back I created some MIDI files with single step differences in Note On velocity at a variety of different dynamic levels from ppp through mf to fff.
To be honest I had very great difficulty hearing any difference between the loudness of notes at small increments.

I honestly don't think 99% of musicians need MIDI 2.0 (or will be able to afford it).

Hasn't ROLI, the inovator in this area just gone bust?

Then again, I could be wrong.
JLG.


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Dude!!! Chilll @JLG , stay in the 80's if that's you want!

The MIDI Association are not here to phase YOU out!!!! Nor are they planning to alienate the MIDI 1.0 protocol along with those MIDI 1.0 gear you keep.... So your apprehension towards MIDI 2.0 is unwarranted.

They (MIDI Assoc) are here for those who wanted a better/improved MIDI protocol, to capitalized on faster transmission rates on/via USB. The MIDI 2.0 was created so much of the work will be focused on implementing the protocol! Rather than spending time on the guessing game over which language/method will the MIDI hardware makers are to use or what the software developers/products (VSTs, DAWs,etc) will innovate on. In other words it is to provide "a clearly defined path for moving forward with MIDI 2.0."


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MIDI Din won't disappear for quite a while because there is just so much legacy equipment around. But you can already see equipment coming out with MIDI USB only and that trend will certainly accelerate with MIDI 2.0. You don't need 2.0 to interconnect today's equipment, but if you are running from a computer, things become more interesting. Once you are hooking in sound, lighting and maybe even video, the need for higher data rates really goes up. I predict that 10 years from now, we will wonder how we ever got by with MIDI 1.0. And 20 years from now the latest fad will be manufacturers coming out with retro hardware that includes MIDI Din connectors. If I'm still around, I'll probably be lining up to buy it just to show my grandchildren how hard we had it when I was their age.


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Just checked my GEM Promega 3. It's not even using 6 bits to full extent, effectively. It produces only 61 distinct velocity values. Never noticed that. It has gaps of size 3-4 in the upper velocity range, slowly reducing to the expect 1-gap/delta, while at the lower end below 10 it gets a little sparse, too. Would be great if that MIDI 2.0 resolution would be supported by proper sensor calibration. But I doubt it. The advantage of a DP is its low maintenance, right? Even if you wanted to calibrate it, you are not allowed to. And MIDI 2.0 on top of rubber contacts that wear out over time? Now that's a great USP right there: we can finally exactly measure the wear-down of the rubber! (just kidding smile

Last edited by Marc345; 11/12/21 09:28 PM.

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