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Hello friends,

I'm no expert and trying to buy a piano for my teen kids who are learning and loving to play. Assuming the cost difference is not a main factor (all around $16k-$19k), which one of these 4 you'd recommend for beginners:

1) Seiler ED-168: My first choice so far, rich sound, and ED series is overall rated professional grade
2) Baldwin BP165: It seems the built is one of the best Chineses made Pianos
3) Kawai GL-30: Built in Japan, probably is solid and trustworthy, but the base was not keeping up with Selier or Baldwin
4) Yamaha C1: Again built in Japan, and overall safe bet.

I couldn't find any real review of Baldwin BP165 online, how come has such a small foot print for such a well built and famous brand?

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Honestly if it's for beginners the considerations are different as any functioning piano would do the job, IMO. Instead of focusing on the quality of the piano itself, I would choose the one that is most liquid - either one that would have the least depreciation should you want to sell, or whichever is available from your local dealer that is best amenable for a trade-up. But it's a different story if you are a pianist yourself.


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I'd go with the one that sounds and feels the best. Looks like you prefer the ED Seiler sound. Does it feel good to you? Any of those pianos should hold up just fine, so go with the one you like best. Good luck!


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Any one of these would be fine. Seems like you like the Seiler the best.


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All of these would be much nicer pianos than I had as a teenager growing up! Seems like you prefer the Seiler; do your kids have a preference? Is it the same as yours?
I like the advice to buy the piano that you and your kids prefer.

Regarding the Baldwin, I played a very nice BP 178 when I was shopping this spring, and I liked it considerably more than the similarly sized Boston, GX/GL pianos from Kawai, and Yamaha C/CX pianos I played. Here’s the article on Baldwin pianos from PianoBuyer.com:
https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/baldwin/

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Thank you for all the recommendations. One of my kids likes Baldwin better and the other like Seiler! But both are super rational and open to get convinced the other way. So, my choices are now between Seiler ED168 and Baldwin BP165. The challenge is each is sold through different dealers, Baldwin dealer says Seiler doesn't use good materials, and Seiler dealer says nobody plays new Baldwins.. very confusing when trying to learn from sellers.

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I have a Baldwin BP190 and have had no issues with it. Another poster had action issues with her BP178, was never resolved to her satisfaction and sold it.

I would ignore what the dealer salesperson says when denigrating other brands. They are paid to sell their pianos, not to tell you the truth.

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I would pick the Seiler.


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I was more inclined towards Seiler, but these two reviews seems like to favor differently!
Baldwin: https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/review-four-baldwin-models/
Seiler: https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/review-seiler-model-186/

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I’ve only played the C1. Pick the one you and your teens prefer. I’m not familiar with Baldwin since they moved to China but really any of the 4 will depreciate the same. I couldn’t guess which would be easier to resell.


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I would think the Yamaha is the strongest contender. The Conservatory series is top notch. The Kawai is not their top tier. If it were an RX series I think that would compare better. Baldwin would be on the bottom. It's China and not it's own company any longer. I don't think they're really a contender in the top brands any longer. Seiler is beautiful too. You have to see what sound you prefer. The Seiler is going to be warmer/ more full. The Asian pianos are brighter with Yamaha being the most brilliant. The C series is a popular/ well-known piano. Resale value would be on the Yamaha.

Last edited by RayR3004; 10/18/21 02:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by alexdavid
I was more inclined towards Seiler, but these two reviews seems like to favor differently!

That Seiler review is quite old, and their current lineup is different than when the review was written. Also, it’s two different reviewers, and knowing the writing style of both, one is more inclined toward praise by default than perhaps the other.


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Sounds as if you're getting what is reputed to be good, if not the very finest, construction on all four of these. If the dealer support is equally good-- and you will need tuning, regulation, voicing, etc.-- then go with what moves you unless you have reason to believe you or the piano will be changing radically any time soon.

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Originally Posted by alexdavid
Hello friends,

I'm no expert and trying to buy a piano for my teen kids who are learning and loving to play. Assuming the cost difference is not a main factor (all around $16k-$19k), which one of these 4 you'd recommend for beginners:

1) Seiler ED-168: My first choice so far, rich sound, and ED series is overall rated professional grade
Overall rated professional grade by who? Because of the way they are built in Indonesia, the ED pianos have a lot going for them, but only the German built SE series should be considered professional grade.

Quote
2) Baldwin BP165: It seems the built is one of the best Chinese made Pianos
That may be true to some degree, BUT the new Chinese built Baldwins should not be confused with the former American built Baldwins that made the Baldwin name famous.

Quote
3) Kawai GL-30: Built in Japan, probably is solid and trustworthy, but the bass was not keeping up with Seiler or Baldwin
The "built in Japan" part is good, but the GL series does not have the higher end features of Kawai's RX series (which is more comparable to the Yamaha CX series).

Quote
4) Yamaha C1: Again built in Japan, and overall safe bet.
I'm assuming this is a new C1X, correct? Even though this is slightly shorter than the other pianos, the build quality and long track record of this series places it IMO above the others. I would think it would have a better resale value as well.

Quote
I couldn't find any real review of Baldwin BP165 online, how come has such a small foot print for such a well built and famous brand?
Again, see my comment regarding "Baldwin" above. There may be some valid reasons for that "small footprint." smile


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After reading the reviews I think the C1 would be my first choice.


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Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by alexdavid
Hello friends,

I'm no expert and trying to buy a piano for my teen kids who are learning and loving to play. Assuming the cost difference is not a main factor (all around $16k-$19k), which one of these 4 you'd recommend for beginners:

1) Seiler ED-168: My first choice so far, rich sound, and ED series is overall rated professional grade
Overall rated professional grade by who? Because of the way they are built in Indonesia, the ED pianos have a lot going for them, but only the German built SE series should be considered professional grade.

Quote
2) Baldwin BP165: It seems the built is one of the best Chinese made Pianos
That may be true to some degree, BUT the new Chinese built Baldwins should not be confused with the former American built Baldwins that made the Baldwin name famous.

Quote
3) Kawai GL-30: Built in Japan, probably is solid and trustworthy, but the bass was not keeping up with Seiler or Baldwin
The "built in Japan" part is good, but the GL series does not have the higher end features of Kawai's RX series (which is more comparable to the Yamaha CX series).

Quote
4) Yamaha C1: Again built in Japan, and overall safe bet.
I'm assuming this is a new C1X, correct? Even though this is slightly shorter than the other pianos, the build quality and long track record of this series places it IMO above the others. I would think it would have a better resale value as well.

Quote
I couldn't find any real review of Baldwin BP165 online, how come has such a small foot print for such a well built and famous brand?
Again, see my comment regarding "Baldwin" above. There may be some valid reasons for that "small footprint." smile
Beautifully put Carey.

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Originally Posted by RayR3004
Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by alexdavid
Hello friends,

I'm no expert and trying to buy a piano for my teen kids who are learning and loving to play. Assuming the cost difference is not a main factor (all around $16k-$19k), which one of these 4 you'd recommend for beginners:

1) Seiler ED-168: My first choice so far, rich sound, and ED series is overall rated professional grade
Overall rated professional grade by who? Because of the way they are built in Indonesia, the ED pianos have a lot going for them, but only the German built SE series should be considered professional grade.

Quote
2) Baldwin BP165: It seems the built is one of the best Chinese made Pianos
That may be true to some degree, BUT the new Chinese built Baldwins should not be confused with the former American built Baldwins that made the Baldwin name famous.

Quote
3) Kawai GL-30: Built in Japan, probably is solid and trustworthy, but the bass was not keeping up with Seiler or Baldwin
The "built in Japan" part is good, but the GL series does not have the higher end features of Kawai's RX series (which is more comparable to the Yamaha CX series).

Quote
4) Yamaha C1: Again built in Japan, and overall safe bet.
I'm assuming this is a new C1X, correct? Even though this is slightly shorter than the other pianos, the build quality and long track record of this series places it IMO above the others. I would think it would have a better resale value as well.

Quote
I couldn't find any real review of Baldwin BP165 online, how come has such a small foot print for such a well built and famous brand?
Again, see my comment regarding "Baldwin" above. There may be some valid reasons for that "small footprint." smile
Beautifully put Carey.

For all those reasons and I go from like to love the pianos in that series. I had the C3 but secretly wished for the C7. The same with Cx’s.


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For what it's worth, here's Mr. Fine on Seiler vis-à-vis Indonesia:
Quote
The mid-level Seiler pianos, the ED models, are also known as the Eduard Seiler line. The pianos are manufactured entirely at Samick’s Indonesian factory, using German CNC machinery, to the exact scales and specifications of the hand-built German models. The actions include Renner wippen assemblies and an action rail of Delignit or hornbeam, with keys made by Samick.
Quote
At both the German and Indonesian factories, strung backs are inspected and cabinet parts carefully fitted to ensure that all specifications have been met to precise tolerances.
https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand/seiler/

Here are some thoughts from an ED-168 dealer that, accordingly, should be taken with at least a grain of salt, but this business also deals in Kawai, Bechstein and other brands:
Quote
The ED Seiler 168 is the smaller Indonesian-built replica of the Seiler SE168 full german 5’7” grand piano. The entire ED Seiler project is a novel one in the industry, as what has been attempted is an Asian-built copy of a current German-made product. Plenty of companies have attempted to extend a flagship German brand further down the product line into inexpensive Chinese or Indonesian-built instruments, but it often takes the form of loosely worded and vague connections between the two products. In this case, Seiler owns both factories, owns both brands, and has the luxury of transplanting machinery, designs, and expertise without restriction.

The piano’s design, scale, and parts, therefore, mirror that of the German product, at approximately 50% of the cost [more like 36% in this case].

The instrument uses a wide-tail design, which allows a longer bass string to be placed on the piano. They also use Roslau blue piano wire (the best OEM product available), Abel hammers (the premium rebuilders’ hammer of choice), solid alpine quarter-sawn spruce soundboard material, maple, and beech rim, duplex scale, and Seiler’s patented membrator planing method.

It produces a massive, warm tone that doesn’t lose any detail to lower-mid woofiness or an overly-blended sound.
https://www.merriammusic.com/product/seiler-ed168/

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Found this. Interesting.....



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Originally Posted by MrSh4nkly
In this case, Seiler owns both factories, owns both brands, and has the luxury of transplanting machinery, designs, and expertise without restriction.
Well the way it's worded is a little misleading isn't it? Because Samick owns Seiler since 2008.


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