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All this talk of faults and defects is making me want to skip the digital pianos and buy an acoustic instead. frown

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Originally Posted by U3piano
Ok, but then how did they (partly) fix this? I guess the software recognizes the unintended loud note now, somehow, most of the time.

It could be a kind of algorithm that takes into account the last keys played to predict how loud the note should sound. This could reduce the occurrence of the unintended loud note.


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
All this talk of faults and defects is making me want to skip the digital pianos and buy an acoustic instead. frown
Or buy the NV5 which hasn’t have the loud note issue. (The silent note issue is the same as the acoustic : if the escapement is not armed again : no sound).

Last edited by Frédéric L; 07/31/20 03:16 PM.

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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Written like this we can understand than Kawai have some false strikes. With an hammer sensor, we will have no loud notes, and silent notes would be silent too on an acoustic piano. We can’t name them false negative.

Sorry, I was imprecise in my language.

Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by U3piano
Ok, but then how did they (partly) fix this? I guess the software recognizes the unintended loud note now, somehow, most of the time.

It could be a kind of algorithm that takes into account the last keys played to predict how loud the note should sound. This could reduce the occurrence of the unintended loud note.

There could be several ways to do this. There's also an algorithm to detect whether a strike should be silent (taking into account key velocity, initial key position, etc.), they could also have adjusted the thresholds to better match when a well-regulated hammer would be caught and re-engaged by the action.

But given that the firmware fix has no impact on CG's detection method (which can trigger loud notes individually at will) I suspect you're right and some predictive method is being used.


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
All this talk of faults and defects is making me want to skip the digital pianos and buy an acoustic instead. frown

Then you will hear about the faults of the bridges, hammers and other parts and wonder if you should replace your hammers with Abels or Isaac hammers. Or to replace your bridge pins with Wapin ones or bridge agraffes. Or installing Precision Touch Design(tm) by Stanwood vs replacing your whole action with a Wessel Nickel & Gross.

You will want to bury your head under the sand and wish you learned to play cards instead of playing the piano.... laugh

PS: How do I know? I have both the NU1 and a small (craigslist-level) grand.

Last edited by Del Vento; 07/31/20 07:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by Del Vento
You will want to bury your head under the sand and wish you learned to play cards instead of playing the piano.... laugh

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Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by Del Vento
would like to have it both ways: loud note when practicing, mitigated when "performing". Since I cannot have it both ways laugh I decided to keep the loud note only for practicing,

Yamaha didn't play this smart. They could have made it a switchable user option, (loud or no note) and advertise it as an advanced practice function. wow

Agreed - and almost certainly had they done this then I would be keeping it

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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
All this talk of faults and defects is making me want to skip the digital pianos and buy an acoustic instead. frown
Or buy the NV5 which hasn’t have the loud note issue. (The silent note issue is the same as the acoustic : if the escapement is not armed again : no sound).

Which I intend to do - except that the dealer has informed me that it could be 2-3 months wait as stocks have "sold out" due to people being locked in and wanting pianos. I really want to get a definite time frame as to when it can be delivered.

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I have been reading through this thread... seems like the "loud note issue" couldn't be fixed with the firmware update, it just got reduced to occur less, is that correct ?


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When the sensor measures two repeated notes with the second one with an higher velocity, it can’t be deduced between :
1/ the player plays a crescendo
2/ the action escapement was not rearmed then the key was too light.

If you fix situation corresponding to the second hypothesis, you create a new issue : the player can’t play easily a crescendo.

Then I don’t expect a adequate fix.


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If the repeated note appears too shortly after the first note and the difference in the velocities is over a threshold (or maybe even if the second note is > 120 or something), then the probability of hitting the loud note issue is IMO much higher than an intentional sforzando (a sudden crescendo). I have proposed that idea before the Yamaha fix appeared and a guy on the forum even created a MIDI filter that implemented that idea, and then shortly afterwards he was contacted by Yamaha and was sent their beta firmware. I don't want to assume a bigger role and exaggerate my participation in this but it's an odd coincidence for Yamaha to have that issue for so long, and then after I proposed my idea on this forum it was a matter of weeks/months that Yamaha also implemented it 🤣 I'd be glad to be hired by Yamaha to work on their digital piano development, just saying 😛 And wouldn't mind having a CFX in the office for a reference!

Last edited by CyberGene; 09/22/21 04:42 AM.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
If the repeated note appears too shortly after the first note and the difference in the velocities is over a threshold (or maybe even if the second note is > 120 or something), then the probability of hitting the loud note issue is IMO much higher than an intentional sforzando (a sudden crescendo). I have proposed that idea before the Yamaha fix appeared and a guy on the forum even created a MIDI filter that implemented that idea, and then shortly afterwards he was contacted by Yamaha and was sent their beta firmware. I don't want to assume a bigger role and exaggerate my participation in this but it's an odd coincidence for Yamaha to have that issue for so long, and then after I proposed my idea on this forum it was a matter of weeks/months that Yamaha also implemented it 🤣 I'd be glad to be hired by Yamaha to work on their digital piano development, just saying 😛 And wouldn't mind having a CFX in the office for a reference!

Yes yes.

Originally Posted by Frédéric L
When the sensor measures two repeated notes with the second one with an higher velocity, it can’t be deduced between :
1/ the player plays a crescendo
2/ the action escapement was not rearmed then the key was too light.

If you fix situation corresponding to the second hypothesis, you create a new issue : the player can’t play easily a crescendo.

Then I don’t expect a adequate fix.

The new issue which you create is something which is ALREADY existing and NORMAL in any upright piano. In such a situation the upright does not sound or sound too lightly. The Yamaha fix reproduces this behavior in the digital, making it more accurate. Now people could argue "why should we reproduce acoustic defects in a digital" and that's a fair conversation to have, however if you want to go that route, then a hybrid piano (with the "normal" acoustic action) is NOT the right instrument for you,

As far as I am concerned, the loud note issue taught me a BETTER technique for the upright piano, which my teacher says is helping me playing better on the acoustic grand piano too (not a CFX, I'm afraid 🤣)

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I have a question, do you know if this high note problem also occurs in yamaha silent pianos? according to the specifications, the system is similar to the NU1x. https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/silent_piano/index.html

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Originally Posted by ediegus
I have a question, do you know if this high note problem also occurs in yamaha silent pianos? according to the specifications, the system is similar to the NU1x. https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/silent_piano/index.html

I believe in the upright silents, yes (because like the NU1/NU1X, they only use the key sensor system). In the grand silents, there are hammer sensors as well, so no.


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by ediegus
I have a question, do you know if this high note problem also occurs in yamaha silent pianos? according to the specifications, the system is similar to the NU1x. https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/silent_piano/index.html

I believe in the upright silents, yes (because like the NU1/NU1X, they only use the key sensor system). In the grand silents, there are hammer sensors as well, so no.

I believe that the SC2 silent system on the grand piano GBK1 is also only key sensors but all SH2 hat both key and hammer sensors on the Yamaha grand pianos. ☺️

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I played an NU1X in a store in Düsseldorf, Germany for about an hour couple days ago (no floor model)... it was a regular model not with glass front. The owner was only selling that model. I couldn't replicate the loud note issue


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Originally Posted by Boboulus
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by ediegus
I have a question, do you know if this high note problem also occurs in yamaha silent pianos? according to the specifications, the system is similar to the NU1x. https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/silent_piano/index.html

I believe in the upright silents, yes (because like the NU1/NU1X, they only use the key sensor system). In the grand silents, there are hammer sensors as well, so no.

I believe that the SC2 silent system on the grand piano GBK1 is also only key sensors but all SH2 hat both key and hammer sensors on the Yamaha grand pianos. ☺️

The SH/SH2 system features key sensors, hammer sensors and the "Quick Escape" mechanism. The latter allows to mechanically regulate the action in silent mode without affecting the action in acoustic mode. This is the only silent system currently on the market that does not interfere with the action regulation. The SH/SH2 is used in Yamaha grand pianos, excluding the entry-level models. A variant of the SH/SH2 is used in the AvantGrand N1X/2/3X.

The SG2/SC2 system, used in all uprights and in the entry-level grands, features key sensors, but has no hammer sensors and no "Quick Escape" mechanism. A variant of the SG/SC2 is used in the AvantGrand NU1X.

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Some concurrent systems permit the double settings of the escapement :

https://www.pianomajeur.net/forum/download/file.php?id=11623

But the Yamaha’s QuickEscape is the most well known.

(On the other side, some installer - even proposed by the Silent system - can ruin the setting.)

Last edited by Frédéric L; 10/14/21 11:55 AM.

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