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Hi!
I have read that Casio GP310 and GP510 doesn't have escapement. So, what does it mean? How will it affect my practice in comparison to a digital piano that has escapement?
Is GP310's action different from GP510?
Thanks

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There are several things here.

First there's the "actual escapement" or "double escapement" in acoustic pianos.

There's Yamaha's brief introduction: https://www.yamaha.com/en/musical_instrument_guide/piano/mechanism/mechanism003.html

There's a brief video talking about the grand piano action:


There's a lengthy video of a pianist explaining "Playing above the escapement":


Then there are digital pianos. They don't have a "real escapement" with the benefits it provides in an acoustic piano. They only have a simulation of the tactile feeling when pressing a key down slowly. That's all.

Both Casio GP models have the same action and Casio/Bechstein decided that they don't need the simulation.

(And the simplified plastic grand piano action look-a-like doesn't have it by design.)

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All the above does not mean that in Casio GP the key would need to return all the way up for the note to be able to be re-triggered. Also it doesn't mean that the action is slow to repeat.

It's fast and the keys don't need to release all the way up. You just won't feel the "bump".

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The "issue" with Casio is their marketing has (intentionally?) led some people to believe that the action is closer in functioning, hence feel, to a real acoustic piano action, because they have wooden keys that are made (designed?) by Bechstein and the hammers look like real hammers, etc. But it has been discussed multiple times here that the principle of work is exactly the same as that of any other digital piano action, folded or not and is thus not closer to real acoustic piano actions, nor can be classified as hybrid, since the term "hybrid" has been established already as digital pianos with real acoustic piano actions.


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One difference from let's say Clavinovas is that the key and the hammer are not permanently attached via a linkage.

So, you can try "throwing" the hammer by pressing the key only part of the way down and it might hit the "string" (the sensor) with enough velocity to produce a sound. So, you might be able to "play above the escapement" even though it -- or a tactile simulation of it -- doesn't actually exist in the way it does in acoustic grand pianos.

But for example Kawai's digital piano actions (even the ones with plastic keys) work that way too. And some others too. So that is nothing unique.

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...and as usual: I'm not a pianist and I don't know what I'm talking about. 😉

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Originally Posted by WPianoY
I have read that Casio GP310 and GP510 doesn't have escapement. So, what does it mean?
How will it affect my practice in comparison to a digital piano that has escapement?
Short answer: It won't affect you at all ... because digital pianos don't have any escapement at all (except for the expensive hybrid pianos).

If you read a claim that a digital piano has escapement, it's a lie. They don't have escapement. They have a clicker.

The nonsense started around ten years ago, and the sham continues to this day.

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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Also it doesn't mean that the action is slow to repeat.
This is actually the reason why Casio didn’t implement the escapement simulation- they claim it repeats faster without. Escapement or not, Casio GP:s action is nice with IMO best in class weighting an a natural key return.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
The "issue" with Casio is their marketing has (intentionally?) led some people to believe that the action is closer in functioning, hence feel, to a real acoustic piano action, because they have wooden keys that are made (designed?) by Bechstein and the hammers look like real hammers, etc. But it has been discussed multiple times here that the principle of work is exactly the same as that of any other digital piano action, folded or not and is thus not closer to real acoustic piano actions, nor can be classified as hybrid, since the term "hybrid" has been established already as digital pianos with real acoustic piano actions.


And who has ‘established’ that the term hybrid is solely reserved for digital pianos with ‘real’ acoustic piano actions? Let me guess, Yamaha!

I’m sorry, but the ‘dictionary’ does not concur with this, and instead it says, ‘a thing made by combining two different elements’, but it doesn’t specify what these ‘elements’ should be; therefore, deducing that only the combination of element 1: digital, and element 2: ‘real action’ should qualify as a hybrid piano is omitting the most crucial element (no pun intended), and that is that the elements in question need not be specific (real action+digital), and since Casio is most certainly combining two un-specific and/or different elements it most certainly qualifies as a hybrid.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
And who has ‘established’ that the term hybrid is solely reserved for digital pianos with ‘real’ acoustic piano actions?

[Linked Image]

...The Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards subforum.

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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Also it doesn't mean that the action is slow to repeat.
This is actually the reason why Casio didn’t implement the escapement simulation- they claim it repeats faster without. Escapement or not, Casio GP:s action is nice with IMO best in class weighting an a natural key return.

I assume escapement simulation also increases friction, makes the action feel heavier.
Nord Grand presumably uses a variant of Kawai RHIII with escapement simulation omitted.

I'm curious if anyone tried to remove escapement simulation from a keybed in order to make it lighter and repeat faster. I guess Roland PHA4 Standard would make an interesting candidate.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
And who has ‘established’ that the term hybrid is solely reserved for digital pianos with ‘real’ acoustic piano actions? Let me guess, Yamaha!

I’m sorry, but the ‘dictionary’ does not concur with this, and instead it says, ‘a thing made by combining two different elements’, but it doesn’t specify what these ‘elements’ should be

It's the granularity level that matters 😀 Yamaha were at the "piano" granularity level, so they took entire components from two different pianos: an entire acoustic piano action combined with an entire digital piano sound engine. And so, that is a hybrid PIANO.

Casio were apparently at the "action" granularity level and so within that level they combined elements of an acoustic piano action (long wooden sticks) with elements from digital piano actions (everything else). And so, that is a hybrid ACTION.


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With such a point of view, we can be further… lets reuse the acrylic resin key surface of the Yamaha grand GB1 on a digital piano and call it hybrid…


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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
With such a point of view, we can be further… lets reuse the acrylic resin key surface of the Yamaha grand GB1 on a digital piano and call it hybrid…

By literal definition; ie, ‘combining two different elements’, this would be correct, and your digital with ‘acrylic resin key surface of the GB1’ would be considered a hybrid!

I’m sorry, I don’t make up the rules, and until -if ever- the term ‘hybrid piano’ is added to the Meriam-Webster as meaning ‘the pairing of a digital with an acoustic action’, my argument stands!

We cannot make up the rules as we please simply for the benefit of it; therefore, the re-assignment of the term hybrid, as defined by one CG, is not acceptable!

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Ha! I'm gonna find myself an authentic Kawai acoustic piano decal and stick it on my digital Kawai. It's a hybrid then.

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But we can guess that some domain has a consensus about a more precise meaning. For example an hybrid car has two kind of motors… this excludes some BMW cars with a Peugeot motor.

In some domain, some words has even some curious meaning we can’t find in « normal » dictionary. On a piano, the French word cylindre doesn’t mean cylinder as usual but the fallboard. My favorite French dictionary doesn’t mention it since it is very domain specific.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 09/29/21 07:38 AM.

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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Ha! I'm gonna find myself an authentic Kawai acoustic piano decal and stick it on my digital Kawai. It's a hybrid then.

You are correct, Sir!

I understand how this might seem counterintuitive, but once again, the rules are the rules, and we can’t change them willy-nilly simply to fit our personal agendas.

If indeed the term needs to be re-visited, then, as mentioned before, this should be done officially through proper and legal procedures leading up to the addition of the term ‘hybrid piano’ as defined by CG.


Yours truly,

Pete14.2

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How about if I'm an anarchist, so I define the rules! I even posted a middle finger ASCII art on this forum once and found myself banned because that's what I wanted: to be banned. I mean, I define the rules.

Last edited by CyberGene; 09/29/21 07:41 AM.

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The hybridization issue is soon going to be a moot one anyway; at some point in the future, though clearly not yet, people will pay extra to get heirloom varieties rather than hybrids.


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I played a Casio GP-500 for two years until it was water damaged. Yesterday I received a Kawai NV5 as it's replacement. The NV5 has an upright action and feels completely different to play. I MUCH prefer the Casio simulated grand action and need to adjust to the Kawai.

But I'm writing to address the escapement issue. After trying DP's with the phony escapement I'd pick the Casio without it because it repeats much faster on the return. The escapement on an acoustic piano allows you to play above the escapement at a lower volume than playing below it. An example is the left hand playing "p" volume below the escapement and the right hand can play "pp" above the escapement. Playing above a "real" escapement creates a different tone quality as well. Playing above the escapement is a VERY difficult technique to learn (at least for me, lol) and I would say almost all the players on this forum, especially those playing DP's, do NOT have the technique mastered. There are actually very few pieces that I've learned that the technique is really used. Now in explaining this here is my point.

Even though the Casio does not have a real escapement or the phony one like other DP's, I could slightly create the affect of playing "above the escapement" on my GP-500. That is the real extraordinary part of the Casio/Bechstein action. Our church has a $25,000 Yamaha digital (sorry I don't know the model number) and it cannot in ANY way create the affect and it has the phony escapement.

Don't hesitate selecting the Casio because of the lack of escapement. At its price point it, has the finest action on the market.


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