2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
39 members (bluebilly, chopin_r_us, brennbaer, bxrdad1, Cutec, Alex Hutor, camperbc, 10 invisible), 516 guests, and 678 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#3160118 09/28/21 10:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 108
C
Cutec Online Content OP
Full Member
OP Online Content
Full Member
C
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 108
Really want an acoustic, or do I?
The more I read and the more dealers I speak to I'm beginning to change my mind about buying an acoustic. Touch can't be beaten but a new piano would probably require several tunings to settle into a good sound. Humidity and temperature could be a factor for me living on the south coast. A hybrid piano could be a possibility without any of the aggravation and cost of maintaining an acoustic. Plus it would always be in tune. Unfortunately something like an NV5s would be more expensive than an acoustic! Not looking at a silent acoustic due to cost and and possible compromise with the action.
Any views appreciated

Cutec #3160131 09/28/21 11:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 614
C
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 614
Q: Should I get an acoustic or digital piano?
A: What do you mean, or?

Cutec #3160135 09/28/21 11:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 108
C
Cutec Online Content OP
Full Member
OP Online Content
Full Member
C
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 108
The question is correct. Take it you're plumping for the acoustic despite the cons.

Cutec #3160139 09/28/21 11:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 168
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 168
Most of my piano playing friends have acoustics and I have a modest acoustic upright but one of reasonable quality. I think that everyone in my circle of friends has become attached to their pianos and I would be surprised if the same attachment could develop with a digital. I may consider buying a Kawai CA99 in the future but it will be a second piano and the acoustic will remain in my home.

Cutec #3160140 09/28/21 11:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 58
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 58
I like that "what do you mean, or?" smile

although I just bought an acoustic, I think that depending on your playing level and performance needs, having and playing a good DP can be just fine. You are correct about tunings and maintenance. Some of the actions on the higher end pianos are getting quite good. Still somewhat different but not something that would hold anyone but a pretty advanced player back.

I almost decided not to get an acoustic. I have been a musician my whole life, although not a pianist, and I like having a big grand around, also hoping to accompany young musicians some day. Otherwise, probably would have stayed happy with the DP.


Kawai RX3
Yamaha CLP 785
Roland FP 30
Cutec #3160144 09/28/21 12:01 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,839
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,839
Is the Yamaha NU1X significantly cheaper in your market than the NV5? (Also, it's been around long enough that there could be used ones)


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Cutec #3160146 09/28/21 12:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 28
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Cutec
Really want an acoustic, or do I?
The more I read and the more dealers I speak to I'm beginning to change my mind about buying an acoustic. Touch can't be beaten but a new piano would probably require several tunings to settle into a good sound. Humidity and temperature could be a factor for me living on the south coast. A hybrid piano could be a possibility without any of the aggravation and cost of maintaining an acoustic. Plus it would always be in tune. Unfortunately something like an NV5s would be more expensive than an acoustic! Not looking at a silent acoustic due to cost and and possible compromise with the action.
Any views appreciated
An NV5s is cheaper than the overwhelming majority of upright pianos. Only the entry-level acoustic uprights are cheaper. You can actually get a Kawai K200 or equivalent Yamaha upright with silent system for approximately the same price as a NV5s, at least in Europe. There is indeed a compromise with the action on an acoustic upright with silent system but it is rather minor, especially if installed at the factory.

Cutec #3160156 09/28/21 12:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 998
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 998
Look for a used NU-1 or N2.
It may take a while for one to manifest on the market for you, but could be very nice.
Searching Craigslist nationally here in the USA, I found an N2 for sale from a private seller in Cambridge, MA with an asking price of $8500. I saw one about a year ago in a Kawai dealership for $5500...

Last edited by Seeker; 09/28/21 12:19 PM.

Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
I Make Music that Lifts People Up & Brings Them Together
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Cutec #3160164 09/28/21 12:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,484
W
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,484
Digitals and acoustics are both better than nothing. As I understand it digitals cost next to nothing to run, unlike acoustics.

On that basis, if not sure, go for a good used digital you like. When the time comes you can trade up to a new digital or an acoustic, or just be happy with what you have.

Remember salesmen want your money, they do not have to live with your choice.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Cutec #3160172 09/28/21 01:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,419
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,419
If money is an issue, go digital. If true 3D sound is more important AND money is not an issue, get a good acoustic and take good care of it. Get the biggest and best you can afford. Develop a good relationship with a good tech and pay him/her well to keep it in tip top shape. Easy solution.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Withindale #3160174 09/28/21 01:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,982
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,982
Originally Posted by Withindale
Digitals and acoustics are both better than nothing. As I understand it digitals cost next to nothing to run, unlike acoustics.

On that basis, if not sure, go for a good used digital you like. When the time comes you can trade up to a new digital or an acoustic, or just be happy with what you have.

+1

To the OP, am I right assuming that you don't currently have a piano at home right now? Or, if I'm wrong, what kind of a piano do you currently have?

If yes, then definitely start with a digital.

An acoustic piano requires regular maintenance, so an ongoing commitment of money and time.


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Cutec #3160194 09/28/21 02:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,055
C
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,055
A digital piano requires regular maintenance i.e. buying a new one every 5...10 years as the old one has become "obsolete". šŸ˜‰

Though I guess a 2021 digital piano will still be quite okay in 2031 if it's fully functioning. It's just that manufacturers come up with new technologies and buzzwords.

Cutec #3160200 09/28/21 02:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,803
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,803
Why not get both? Go to dealers and play all the pianos you find. I have a beautiful acoustic grand that can knock the piano socks off the best digital. My digital does fit in the SUV or truck and weighs only 26 lbs.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
The reason Iā€™m old and wise is because God protected me when I was young and stupid.
[Linked Image]
Cutec #3160207 09/28/21 02:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 680
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 680
There's no question that digital pianos are immeasurably cheaper and more convenient. But they sound like an immaculate recording of a nice piano, rather than like a nice piano. I've found this to be true even of the expensive ones that are shaped like a grand piano.

My hifi speakers incorporate subwoofers and claim to produce frequencies down to 32Hz. As far as I know, digital pianos don't even incorporate subwoofers, despite the fact that the lowest note on the piano is 27.5Hz. As you go down into the bass you can hear that part of the sound is missing. It seems odd that manufacturers seem to be trying to get digital pianos as close as possible to a real piano, yet haven't thought of putting in subwoofer(s)?

Last edited by Sonepica; 09/28/21 02:38 PM.
Cutec #3160214 09/28/21 02:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 227
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 227
Cutec, from your earlier posts I understand that you have a mid-tier Kawai CN37 digital piano and are wondering whether you should upgrade to an acoustic or a higher-end digital or hybrid.

I was in a similar position a couple of years ago, having returned to the piano after several decades away with a Yamaha DGX-660 digital and looking for an upgrade after 18 months with it. I test played almost every digital available and many acoustic pianos over the course of six months.

In the end, I just could not get comfortable with spending more than $1,500 on a digital "black box" with no assurance that parts for any repair would be available a few years down the line. As "Clotheared" points out above, forced obsolescence is a real risk with digital pianos.

Besides, I could not find any digital -- whatever the price -- with the dynamic control or the enveloping sound of any acoustic piano, even entry-level ones. Hybrids do help with the touch, but their speaker systems still can't match the tone of an acoustic. (I don't like playing with headphones on.)

Yamaha may have since corrected the issue with a firmware update, but I encountered the infamous "loud note problem" twice in a few minutes with an NU1X during my tests a couple of years ago. Do check for that if you seriously consider one.

So I ended up with an entry-level Kawai grand, a used but virtually new instrument at a bargain price, and have been very happy with it. I still have my Yamaha digital, which I play only rarely now but is still worth keeping.

Don't sweat costs associated with the maintenance of an acoustic piano. I read Larry Fine's The Piano Book cover-to-cover and most of Arthur Reblitz's Piano Servicing book before purchasing my grand, and they helped make me comfortable with owning an acoustic instrument, even though I don't service it myself. As "P W Grey" says above, that is best left to a trusted technician, but it is nice to know what he or she is doing.

Good luck with your decision!

Cutec #3160215 09/28/21 02:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,677
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,677
Sonipica, I can vouch that in the Yamaha Clavinova series from the model CLP-745 and up there is a very realistic bass; With expressive pianissimos. With features such as it is always in tune so I don't have to tune it, onboard metronome, one touch recording, etc. not to mention volume control and earphones. Since I sold my house and moved into a condo, I have enjoyed playing my CLP-645 at all hours of the day and night. I'm seriouly considering moving up to a CLP-775.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Cutec #3160216 09/28/21 02:48 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,839
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,839
Originally Posted by Sonepica
As far as I know, digital pianos don't even incorporate subwoofers, despite the fact that the lowest note on the piano is 27.5Hz. As you go down into the bass you can hear that part of the sound is missing. It seems odd that manufacturers seem to be trying to get digital pianos as close as possible to a real piano, yet haven't thought of putting in subwoofer(s)?

If you look at a spectrum analysis (some ETD software displays this graphically), the fundamental frequency of the low bass of the piano is almost nonexistent in the sound that we're hearing, rather we're interpolating a lot of the information from the upper partials which are stronger than the fundamental pitch (even on larger grands). Almost every recording of a concert grand that's done in a hall rolls off frequencies below 40Hz, and sometimes higher than that, to attenuate HVAC, street, and other undesirable sounds.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 680
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 680
Originally Posted by Dave B
Sonipica, I can vouch that in the Yamaha Clavinova series from the model CLP-745 and up there is a very realistic bass; With expressive pianissimos. With features such as it is always in tune so I don't have to tune it, onboard metronome, one touch recording, etc. not to mention volume control and earphones. Since I sold my house and moved into a condo, I have enjoyed playing my CLP-645 at all hours of the day and night. I'm seriouly considering moving up to a CLP-775.

I've played Clavinovas and found part of the sound to be missing from the bass.

Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by Sonepica
As far as I know, digital pianos don't even incorporate subwoofers, despite the fact that the lowest note on the piano is 27.5Hz. As you go down into the bass you can hear that part of the sound is missing. It seems odd that manufacturers seem to be trying to get digital pianos as close as possible to a real piano, yet haven't thought of putting in subwoofer(s)?

If you look at a spectrum analysis (some ETD software displays this graphically), the fundamental frequency of the low bass of the piano is almost nonexistent in the sound that we're hearing, rather we're interpolating a lot of the information from the upper partials which are stronger than the fundamental pitch (even on larger grands). Almost every recording of a concert grand that's done in a hall rolls off frequencies below 40Hz, and sometimes higher than that, to attenuate HVAC, street, and other undesirable sounds.

Subwoofers clearly do something, otherwise they wouldn't exist, right? Some people with hifi speakers buy an additional subwoofer because subwoofers small enough to fit in a speaker tower don't give them what they want.

Last edited by Sonepica; 09/28/21 03:02 PM.
Cutec #3160227 09/28/21 03:14 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,839
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,839
Yes, and I have a subwoofer for my home theater setup. But it's not typically something I feel is needed for piano music. Other types of music and cinema, sure.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Cutec #3160236 09/28/21 04:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 680
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 680
It might be needed if you're trying to get close to the sound of a real piano. What's your view on why digital pianos don't sound quite the same as real pianos?

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
Our Fall 2021 Free Newsletter is Out , see it here!
---------------------
Selling my Hammond & Leslie!
---------------------
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha NP-12 Auto Accompaniment Options?
by Fonics - 10/25/21 04:24 AM
Zebrakovsky? Lebrakovsky?
by edferris - 10/24/21 11:10 PM
Pianoteq velocity curves
by Mta88 - 10/24/21 10:28 PM
Buying my first piano Steinway?
by echo44 - 10/24/21 09:19 PM
Away for 2 weeks
by Cutec - 10/24/21 05:29 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics209,730
Posts3,141,843
Members103,104
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5