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Joined: Dec 2020
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Abdol I never said I will change my MP6. I also don't know the answer since I haven't owned any of the pianos I'm asking for. I just make wild guesses (not even assumptions). After all the opinions and my simultaneous personal research, things seem much clearer now.
Thanks Tyr for the pedal compatibility clarification.

Last edited by tedsorvino1; 09/14/21 11:40 PM.
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@tedsorvino1,
I tried the MP11 and MP11SE, and I really enjoyed both of them, but consider a renowned issue that these both amazing pianos have got relates the GFI action (sticky keys) ...watch these videos before to get one:


I would love to have one of them, but no point to working hard to buy something with a potential design/factory defect.

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I have had an MP10 for 10 years, and bought an MP7SE about a year ago. I commute between two homes and practice/play jazz on both instruments 10-12 hrs per week, piano sounds only. I never liked the MP10 piano sound that much, and once I got the MP7SE, I grew to like it even less. I tried lots of variations (all 9 combinations plus virtual technician tweaks) to try and improve the MP10 sound, many of which were suggested from posts here, but was never satisfied. I do like sound consistency, and have now switched to using both keyboards as controllers with the same VST, but if I only had the MP7SE, it would be a toss-up between my favorite VST of the moment (right now Ravenscroft) and the default MP7SE sound, the SK-EX.

If I had it to do all over again I probably would have gotten the MP11SE instead of the MP7SE because I prefer the action of the MP10 over the action of the MP7SE. (But unlike sound generation, I don't mind so much switching between different actions--adapting to the differences helps one's sense of touch and speed).

Bottom line--I would not recommend the MP10 unless you plan to use it only as a controller.

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Thanks Plinian and Little Mega.
Unfortunatelly potential defects because of use and time can happen even to the most expensive and well built instrument. Sometimes we ve got to live with this fact and learn how to fix problems.
A great action can live for ever as a controller because of the ever evolving nature of vsts. A great sound engine has an expiration date because great sound perception changes along with technology. Another fact we ve got to live with.
Thanks everybody for the opinions. I think I 've figured out much better what the main differences between these 3 models are and now I can decide accordingly.

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Originally Posted by littlemega
@tedsorvino1,
I tried the MP11 and MP11SE, and I really enjoyed both of them, but consider a renowned issue that these both amazing pianos have got relates the GFI action (sticky keys) ...watch these videos before to get one:

I would love to have one of them, but no point to working hard to buy something with a potential design/factory defect.


Nothing is bulletproof. Even acoustic piano's action needs regulations and repairs:



You don't see these often because:
1- Most owners don't know/care
2- If they do, it's a common/regular service

Nothing abnormal.

What matters is how long it would take for an instrument to start malfunctioning. If it's 4-5 months under moderate use, that's bad. If it takes some years, then it's absolutely normal.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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Abdol, you are right: "Nothing is bulletproof".
But, regarding those videos that I posted, in my modest opinion, which is based on all the sources that I found online, we are talking about a design/factory defect of the GFI which is been fixed completely in the GFIII. (As you can see in those videos they used an "inappropriate" material for the slip tape ...).
Anyway, I would be very very happy to find an MP11SE owner which have never got this issue in 4 years of regular use.

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Hi Tedsorvino1,

To put the design issue with the slip-tapes into a little context I've owned an MP11se for nearly four years and have had Kawai's technicians out on two separate occasions to replace faulty slip tapes under warranty. Here in the UK and much of Europe Consumer Protection law extends mandatory warranty cover to 5-years from initial purchase albeit via the original dealer and is none transferrable to a subsequent owner unless specifically stipulated by the warranty's terms and conditions. Your local market may well be different.

Nevertheless, I cannot fault Kawai UK's response to organising the required servicing once informed by my dealer (Bonners) on each occasion. On the first occasion Five offending slip tapes were changed and all was good for another 18-months until several others began to give problems around the start of the Pandemic with its associated restrictions. I chose to ignore the issue until the Pandemic situation eased and only requested further assistance a month ago. I'm delighted to confirm that an appointment was agreed for Friday last when the Kawai appointed technician arrived (observing Covid-19 mitigation standards) and proceeded to renew all 88-key slip-tapes. He commented that on other GF1/GF2 keyboards so treated he had not yet had occasion to repeat the exercise and that Kawai have indeed modified the slip tape, although he wasn't sure of the exact timing of the modification.

I'm also pleased to confirm that the action is now very smooth and responsive with a quick return; something that betters it's original out of the box state at purchase! It took him just under 3-hours to strip down, replace all the slip tapes, clean all the capstan screws, easing a couple of the key felts (as on an acoustic!) into the bargain and fully re-assemble and test. So this should give a good indication of any future out of warranty costs associated with the same service.

He advised that as my small apartment is in an attic space and the MP11se is immediately in front of an Easterly facing window that, similar to an acoustic piano, the radiant heat through the window can be problematic and probably helps cause the slip-tape adhesive failure which is the root cause of the issue and to take whatever mitigating measures are practical; so I'll be keeping curtains/blinds drawn from now on in the AM (a la Hitchcock's Rear Window)! My technician is an independent contractor and has been servicing Electronic Keyboards/Organs of all makes for more than thirty years; when he's not busy playing the French Horn professionally as a freelance musician (as is common with most professional classical musicians in the UK where very few are actually employed permanently by Orchestras).

My own take on this situation is that although actual tuning is obviously unnecessary on a purely digital instrument its mechanics will need attention from time to time and only the individual owner can decide as to its worth when the time eventually comes. Given the 3-hour time taken to carry out the services detailed above plus the cost of the slip-tape replacements I'd anticipate an out of warranty bill of around £300 at current prices perhaps once every five years; which is on a par with the servicing costs of a decent mechanical watch.

The consumer's expectation issue of invincibility is slightly exacerbated by manufacturers' implications that electronic devices need no servicing during their working lifetimes; although they don't actually state what those lifetimes are and consumers tend to naturally equate higher purchase cost with longer life when increased mechanical complexity may actually work against this! It is, unfortunately, unrealistic to expect manufactures to effectively state that their digital pianos are likely to require periodic servicing as this goes against both their implied product invincibility and the upgrade mantra prevalent in our throw away consumer society.

I hope that this sheds some light on the situation and proves helpful in your decision.

Best wishes,

Tog


Standard: Absolute beginner. Currently butchering Bach BWV846!
Kit: Kawai MP11SE; Focal Alpha 80 monitors (pair); the original REL 'Storm' Sub-woofer from the early 1990's ( manufactured by BK Electronics Ltd on behalf of REL); Roland Z-Stand; generic studio style speaker stands; HP Grado SR60
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Thanks everyone for the input.

I finally bought a used MP 11 first edition. Even if I was finding a nearly new MP11SE for about 1500 euros. I paid for mine around 1150 euros.
I have to admit that the GF keyboard feels much better, than the good plastic RH action of the MP6 (and luckily enough mine is in really good state) , the sound quality is not so much greater in most instruments (the MP6 is excellent anyways). Few others have been vastly improved. The triple pedal is more than excellent for my playing.
Hopefully I won't have the frequent problem with the teflon tape at the back of the key anytime soon.

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Sorry, but you can’t be sure. Bought mine MP11 in 2014 and did not see the slip tape problem until last year. Have the new tape but not yet been able to start the process of repair….

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I know Kurt what you mean. Actually when I checked with Local off some keys were making a louder noise when they were reaching the bottom.
But still such things can happen to any acoustic piano after years of playing, but it's improbable to hear them since there is musical sound coming out of the instrument. The same with a digital instrument.
Yes we have the chance to hear with local off, but this is not the point (even the use of local off is not to listen to the keybed without producing musical sounds).

I think in order to fix something the instrument has to reach the point that something obstructs the actual playing of each player. Unless somebody loves to keep the gear perfectly maintained more than using them - I've met several such people (gearheads) and it's not bad, but they usually are not very active musicians - nothing wrong with that either.

After some playing regarding the F 30 triple pedal I have to admit that it feels a bit more plastic comparing to the single F 10 (which was feeling very sturdy). But still it can be controlled and reach half pedal etc quite easier. And it still is very usable well constructed.

I guess it could have been better (and the new optical one is better) but no way paying 150 euros for something like that (essentially a couple of potentiometers and switches - optical or not) - especially if we are not talking about demanding classical players - who I doubt they care too much about the slab they are using for the odd practice.
I think with a great single dumper (like the F10) and a couple of cheap good aftermarket ones (15 euros each) anyone can work even better. If there is such need.

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