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I'm pretty amazed at the low bar the Kawai dealer near me has set for themselves and for our community. I tried giving some straight talk about how disappointed I was that the pianos in their showroom were all out of tune and that they apparently had no work on them out of the crate except for a quick tuning. The dealer told me I was unkind and the he had no idea what sort of an agenda I had that I would insult him so badly. He told me he was a tech of 30 years and knew what a wonderful piano he was selling, and that fine pianists around the world chose their pianos, and that a major religious institution had purchased thousands of their instruments for their meetinghouses around the globe because the piano is so fine. He totally missed that I was talking about his presentation not representing the brand well and that it was a turn off to me as a potential customer who had walked in there ready to talk about dropping $45K to $55K on the Shigerus I'd been researching if the piano lived up to its hype when i played it (which it definitely didn't).

Do piano dealers tend to be this temperamental artistic type? I guess I'm naïve. If a restaurant smells bad or the food doesn't taste right one evening, I'll tell them directly, and they usually apologize and thank me. If a gas station has a nasty bathroom, I'll tell them it needs attention. If my dentist is hurting me, I tell him. If I go to a car dealership, I expect a new car to have aligned wheels, to be washed, to have a clean steering wheel, and a calibrated engine. When we're talking about spending tens of thousands of dollars for a musical instrument, I would think that a sales person would allow the customer to have an opinion about some things rather than to assume that the glory of their brand should cause me to wonder in awe, to be thrilled to be in the presence of anything with their brand name on the fallboard. My personal experience as a businessman is that customer feedback can be valuable in identifying and remediating blind spots. Do piano dealers not get this? I've had two other experiences in the last year with dealers being totally unwilling to hear my concerns about the instruments they're trying to sell me, and they drop me when I don't just drop a check at the first thing they show me. A very strange business. Are piano sales so good right now? A car dealer would engage you much more. I find it distasteful dealers are so disinterested in trying to provide what's called customer service at even moderate-price clothing retailers.

Besides being out of tune, the voicing on the Shigeru and all of the GXs (three or four GX-2s and one GX-7, if that's the right number for the seven-foot model) was dull and uninspiring. Zero magic. The action was sluggish and heavy on all the GXs. It really all surprised me, because I'm a member of the religious denomination with the gargantuan Kawai contract and have played scores if not hundreds of 6'ish Kawai grands and consoles over the decades. I probably played 12 to 15 pianos in total in the store, about half of which were previously owned European pianos (Schimmels and Petrofs) around or over the six-foot mark. None of them was in tune or had apparently any effort made to refine the piano. They'd been unloaded and a very expensive price tag placed on them. Whether they are sending these new or used pianos out to homes like this, I think they do a major disservice by not giving their owners any sense of what these pianos are capable of. (Honestly, I've rarely played a Kawai that I loved, and now I wonder if most of them have come through this dealer, and I know I understand why.) It's really disappointing that they are willing to just put in the least effort possible and rest on the laurel of telling people, "Well, if it's good enough for your church, the name on the fallboard should be enough for you. Steinway even has Kawai make their Asian production piano." I can't believe that a tech of 30 years would be content having those pianos on the floor sounding and playing like that. If I were him, I'd have a tuning hammer and voicing tool out and be touching up pianos the whole day while I waited for clientele. I suggested that he have at least one great specimen prepped and tuned at all times to really show what the brand is capable of. Is tha treally unreasonable to expect or recommend? Sorry, dealers, if that sounds like new to you, you need a lesson in marketing and customer service. I'm a CPA by profession, and I graduated from one of the world's great business schools, but, folks, this is just basic common sense.

He told me, before I unintentionally turned things ugly, that they can't keep pianos in stock because the Kawais and Shigerus sell so fast. Do you really think? All the more sad it makes me to think there are scores of these underdeveloped instruments out there that were placed in homes just to make a buck rather than to provide a refined instrument to the client and the make the world a more beautiful place. Imagine a major car dealer who perpetually sold cars that were out of spec and just didn't care? He told me that I didn't know what I was talking about with voicing, that the tone of a Kawai is balanced from top to bottom. How does a tech of 30 years not understand what I mean by voicing? I'm not talking about the string scaling and hammer selection, voicing is optimizing--or even doing anything--to the hammers once the piano gets uncrated--because some of the 12,000 parts of a grand piano have probably fallen out of spec after being shipped half-way across the world, you know? Thuddy bass sounds with harsh overtones--not something I'm used to hearing on six-foot Kawais. Hammers that are slow to return. Just sad. Kind of insulting to Kawai and to a pianist.

Here's the back story. I'm in search of a nice piano. A guy on the east coast who specializes mostly in rebuilds is trying to find the right piano for me. He's just gotten in a Kawai GX-2 that's only a few years old and thinks I should consider it, even though I've only been considering European and American pianos. I decided to go to this local Kawai dealer (here in the Intermountain West) to check out the GX. Before going, I did some research also on the Shigeru. I soon began to be open to the possibility of finding a way to purchase a new Shigeru. I emailed the store to see when they were around and if they had GXs and any Shigeru for me to try if I came in. They had four or five GX-2s in, and one Shigeru SK-2. I'd played a Shigeru 20 years ago and was pretty amazed by it, but I was young and wrote anything by Steinway off my list at the time...and I was young on poor. Anyway, I can't imagine a Mercedes dealer being offended that I told him that that car I test drove represented his company poorly and really disappointed me because it drove so rough, with low air in the tires and bad wheel or steering alignment.

I also told the Kawai salesman that I'd helped three people in the last few years pick out pianos, one as recently as last month who ended up buying a piano at the store right next door to him. (I think there are three others in the last five or six years.) I told him I would like to be able to recommend his store and brand to people, but my experience there had left me disappointed and that I wouldn't feel inspired to send anybody there, so much so that I was probably back to writing the brand off again. Man, if you gave direct, unangry feedback like that to a grocery store, restaurant, or retailer (because I have and do as occasions present themselves), their ears perk up and they see your point, apologize, and thank you and they generally do better...or I don't go back. I wasn't being a jerk, I was letting them know what kind of a bad of an impression they were making to people who play well and want a nice piano. The guy really took it personally, like I was calling his baby ugly. A really weird world this piano business.


Dealers, I'll give you a hint. He still had an opportunity here. He could have said, "I know the pianos are out of tune right now. When I heard you play, I felt bad because I knew you'd know how bad they were right now. Our tuner has had Covid-19, and we're just not at the top of our game. He's back next week and I'm going to have him get the Shigeru dialed in. If you'll give us another chance, I'd love you to come back and play the piano after it's where I think it starts to really show well. If you'll come back and decide to go with a Kawai, we'll take really good care of you. Appreciate you calling us out on this so we get back on course." See how much better that works?

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So much for "The customer is always right".


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Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
So much for "The customer is always right".

+1

Also, everyone can have a bad day. Dealing with customers is not easy. I know from direct experience, if in a completely different work


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Originally Posted by EB5AGV
Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
So much for "The customer is always right".

+1

Also, everyone can have a bad day. Dealing with customers is not easy. I know from direct experience, if in a completely different work

I can imagine what it is to deal with customers and knowing myself I would be directly punching and fighting them 🤣 Which is why I'm not working with customers and also why I find it inexcusable for a salesman to be unkind. If a salesman can't find a way to be polite even with the worst types of d*cks, then he better finds another job.

Last edited by CyberGene; 09/25/21 03:20 AM.

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You were there so you can make the best guess.

He probably knows these issues but is unable to fix them. So you were putting the finger on a sore spot. Maybe his hearing is gone bad and he has no money to hire someone to do the tuning? Or maybe he has no time for fixing them?


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When I was shopping for a piano, I tried one at a dealer - I knew I liked that piano but I told them that I couldn't properly evaluate it because it was out of tune. So I moved on to other stores. I think a week later they called to tell me that they had the piano tuned and invited me to try it again - long story short, that piano is now in my studio at home.

I bought it not because I felt the least bit obligated of course - I already liked the piano and with it tuned I could actually hear what it could do, not imagining what it might be able to do. But had they not done the tuning, I might have ended up with a different piano at home. Having a piano in a presentable condition could be the difference between a sale and no sale.

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Expecting the dealer to voice a new piano to match his showroom or - worse - that of a potential customer's even smaller room sounds a little odd to me.

Especially when it comes to a Shigeru, where aftercare in a customer's home is part of the price tag and package i.e.having a specialized technician (Kawai MPA) to voice the piano according to the piano's new home and owner's wishes. Maybe I am wrong, but I seem to remember that Shigeru dealers have no business touching Shigerus other than tuning. I know one of the three European MPAs and he is definitely someone who hates to work on beautiful grands that have already been worked on by someone with a different approach, with no documentation on the work done, both in method and use of material.

Obviously the salesperson disagreed with your opinion on when and how to voice a piano, so maybe there were other points of friction in the communication with this salesperson as well. You have obviously shown no visible interest in one of the piano that was obvious enough, so it's fair to assume that you were not seen as someone in the market for a new piano right there and then.

Did he really have an opportunity? Was there at least one piano that caught your interest to such an extent that you kept returning to it after playing others? Have you spoken to him about a specific piano and why it wasn't the one that you generally liked, but that certain aspects kept you from clearly signalling an interest in buying that piano?

Maybe he just wasn't in the mood for a discussion about how to run his business when that person hasn't shown any sign of interest in one of the instruments he had available. Who knows. Usually - with few exceptions - there two sides to a story.

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Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
So much for "The customer is always right".

That's not always true smile. On more than one occasion I've wished the customer would take his custom elsewhere!

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Originally Posted by OE1FEU
Expecting the dealer to voice a new piano to match his showroom or - worse - that of a potential customer's even smaller room sounds a little odd to me.
Pianos should be voiced(if necessary) to sound well in the showroom. Most people don't and shouldn't buy a piano that doesn't sound good in the showroom hoping it will sound good in their home.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 09/25/21 08:46 AM.
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Originally Posted by Cristofori
I'm pretty amazed at the low bar the Kawai dealer near me has set for themselves and for our community. I tried giving some straight talk about how disappointed I was that the pianos in their showroom were all out of tune and that they apparently had no work on them out of the crate except for a quick tuning....
Based on the incredible length and tone of your first post, my impression is that you are a difficult customer. It sounds like you were "rubbing his nose" in your complaints and turned him off. I think it takes a lot to get a salesman angry at a potential buyer. It's also possible that how you felt about the tuning and touch of the pianos is not the same as how other people would feel.

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Originally Posted by Cristofori
Do piano dealers tend to be this temperamental artistic type?

No.


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Cristofori
To it sounds as if there really was no reason to speak to the manager in such a way.Did you think of anyone but yourself when he told you that you insulted him..? The whole situation could have been handled differently if you had been a little kinder.

The whole world is going through a crisis but you expect your breakfast to be on on time, ready and perfect!!! Really?

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Originally Posted by tre corda
Cristofori
To it sounds as if there really was no reason to speak to the manager in such a way.Did you think of anyone but yourself when he told you that you insulted him..? The whole situation could have been handled differently if you had been a little kinder.

The whole world is going through a crisis but you expect your breakfast to be on on time, ready and perfect!!! Really?

+/- 1... I agree with this statement for the most part. Having work experience working with the public/customers, from an early age, I do know that the customer is not always right, but they are always the customer, hopefully.

Firstly, I think Cristofori letting the dealer know, in no uncertain terms, exactly what he/she thought and how he/she felt about the dealer's pianos, was within their rights to do so. On the other hand, words are the vehicle of thought, and once said cannot be retrieved, ever. It is apparent the dealer took offense at Cristofori's comments. The dealer could have been more diplomatic themselves.

The end result? Cristofori will never forget the dealer's response, and likely repeat the story again and again, which might deter potential customers from visiting this particular dealer.

Secondly, the dealer will never forget what Cristofori said and will likely feel offended at their comments perpetually. A lose-lose situation all the way around.

In my view, there are times when it is best to keep our thoughts and comments to ourselves. Other times, it might be in our best interest to say what we think and how we feel, regardless of whether or not it offends someone; but be prepared for rebuttal...

Just my .02, at a discount, and I hope it doesn't offend anyone. smile

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Well, it looks like if I came for sympathy rather than straight talk, I came to the wrong place! I'll readily admit that I'm a tough customer. That said, my lengthy original post was meant to provide context rather than a quick criticism. My criticisms that I voiced were rather brief and to the point, after we'd enjoyed twenty or thirty minutes of friendly discussion.

As for "The whole world is going through a crisis but you expect your breakfast to be on on time, ready and perfect!!! Really?" I would say, yes, when you're spending this kind of money, you're allowed to have an opinion. Rather than lying on my way out the door, "Yep, we'll be in touch," I thought he deserved to know what I thought.

That said, I'm realizing it's like I'm eating at a ma and pa restaurant, and I'm hoping for a gourmet experience. Wanting filet minion on a roast beef budget! I'll try to keep in mind who I'm dealing with going forward. I mentioned that I'd had two other experiences in the last year. I broker found a Bluthner for me in an adjacent state, a Bluthner "with a hairline crack in the soundboard." I flew to the neighboring state to try the piano. It was was divine! Only the "hairline crack" was six or seven cracks much larger than hairline. When I told the broker I was disappointed in the misrepresentation, he's never proposed another piano to me, and he used the term "bottom feeder" for people even interested in the piano he'd set up for me to fly to to play! So, yeah, my opinion of piano salesman and their ability to receive and grow from feedback is not very hopeful.

As an update, after writing my original post last night, I woke up this morning and was surprised to notice an email from the Kawai sales guy that I offended! He told me that the day after I visited the store he had the Shigeru tuned. He then proceeded to tell me that their tuner/tech is spending more time at home with his wife who has cancer, "as he should be," he stated, which I totally agree with, of course. I think that was partly admission of guilt and partly to try to make me feel bad for them or to tell me that I should withhold judgment. I'm glad he wrote me. How different this also could have been had the sales guy said at the time of my visit, "I know our pianos aren't in great shape right now. Our tech has a family issue that is keeping him from the pianos." I guess I'm expecting the type of communication in piano sales that is standard in other professions.

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I remember once going to a piano store out of town the temperature had suddenly dropped.Nearly every piano was out of tune.(perhaps there was a power outage?)The stores technician had not yet visited. Besides when pianos are out of tune it is difficult, (depending on how much "out" they are) It can be be able difficult to judge the voicing.Normally a technician tunes and then voices or touches up voicing so perhaps our customer was unable to judge the voicing...


My piano's voice is my voice to the great unknown, out there..in other words a hymn.That is all but that is enough.

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Perhaps he was not trying to make you feel bad.Perhaps his technician has just been spending more time at home with his wife who had cancer.Perhaps you could apologize to him?
.


My piano's voice is my voice to the great unknown, out there..in other words a hymn.That is all but that is enough.

Just sold my old C2 and am thinking of replacing it with a CBechstein124, Schimmel K132 or a YUS5.
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Cristofori, it sounds like he gave you some straight talk right back, when he told you that you were unkind and had insulted him badly. You dropped a hod of bricks on him and he reacted in a predictable manner.

You come across as very judgmental and offended when the world doesn't snap to attention and do things your way.

Life is full of disappointments and your resentments will only deepen. Perhaps you should give up piano playing, if it causes you this much distress.


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If the owner felt that his business and professionalism were trashed, I wouldn’t be surprised.

It doesn’t sound like there was any misrepresentation, dishonesty or fraud here.

“Straight talk” can include observations while withholding judgement.

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Originally Posted by Cristofori
Well, it looks like if I came for sympathy rather than straight talk, I came to the wrong place! I'll readily admit that I'm a tough customer. That said, my lengthy original post was meant to provide context rather than a quick criticism. My criticisms that I voiced were rather brief and to the point, after we'd enjoyed twenty or thirty minutes of friendly discussion.

As for "The whole world is going through a crisis but you expect your breakfast to be on on time, ready and perfect!!! Really?" I would say, yes, when you're spending this kind of money, you're allowed to have an opinion. Rather than lying on my way out the door, "Yep, we'll be in touch," I thought he deserved to know what I thought.

That said, I'm realizing it's like I'm eating at a ma and pa restaurant, and I'm hoping for a gourmet experience. Wanting filet minion on a roast beef budget! I'll try to keep in mind who I'm dealing with going forward. I mentioned that I'd had two other experiences in the last year. I broker found a Bluthner for me in an adjacent state, a Bluthner "with a hairline crack in the soundboard." I flew to the neighboring state to try the piano. It was was divine! Only the "hairline crack" was six or seven cracks much larger than hairline. When I told the broker I was disappointed in the misrepresentation, he's never proposed another piano to me, and he used the term "bottom feeder" for people even interested in the piano he'd set up for me to fly to to play! So, yeah, my opinion of piano salesman and their ability to receive and grow from feedback is not very hopeful.

As an update, after writing my original post last night, I woke up this morning and was surprised to notice an email from the Kawai sales guy that I offended! He told me that the day after I visited the store he had the Shigeru tuned. He then proceeded to tell me that their tuner/tech is spending more time at home with his wife who has cancer, "as he should be," he stated, which I totally agree with, of course. I think that was partly admission of guilt and partly to try to make me feel bad for them or to tell me that I should withhold judgment. I'm glad he wrote me. How different this also could have been had the sales guy said at the time of my visit, "I know our pianos aren't in great shape right now. Our tech has a family issue that is keeping him from the pianos." I guess I'm expecting the type of communication in piano sales that is standard in other professions.

Although you were being factual and gave the dealer/salesman the straight facts, just from your post, your statements and judgment comes across as rather harsh. I think you just need to try a bit of kindness first before you lay down the insults. Many more folks will be willing to listen to your opinion.


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Someone comes up to you and says "You have soot on your face."

Choose your reply

(1) "Do I? Hey, thanks!"
(2) "I've never been so insulted in my life. How dare you?"

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