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Originally Posted by drewr
Originally Posted by JoeT
It's kinda amusing how with the very little information provided by the OP everyone is making up a story in their mind. From your perspective you're seeing a advanced piano student, who is stuck for four years on a toy digital piano as their practice tool.

FORE!

This thread certainly has developed a variety of story lines, least among them remains the OP’s initial and seemingly sincere inquiry. I think it would be nice to hear from them but since they as protagonist so far have filled a cameo role .... amusing? ....i dunno but given the subsequent ebbs and flows of dialog, once birthed, threads apparently can and do spin and wind and go on as though of their own volition sans OP. An antagonist just now giving voice to having derived some imagined amusement is probably on par for this particular course.

Maybe that's what we like about these forums and the postings. Maybe that's what keeps us here when new models are scarce and hardy available . . .
It then behoves us all to use a little imagination, to evoke a less than little backlash. It makes the world turn and burn.
But I didn't light the fire!


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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Chummy
At your level, I would'nt be happy if I didn't have access to a REAL acoustic piano. As a piano teacher I'd never recommend intermediate/advanced students to use a digital piano as their main practice instrument.
[...]
I never had a student that stuck on an entry level keyboard for so many (4) years...

It's kinda amusing how with the very little information provided by the OP everyone is making up a story in their mind. From your perspective you're seeing a advanced piano student, who is stuck for four years on a toy digital piano as their practice tool...

This guy's probably stuck on his piano, as well, no? laugh



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Originally Posted by maucycy
Originally Posted by Chris James
I find some of the views expressed in this thread a bit strange.

I play some quite advanced pieces on my FP10, (I have a recording of one of them in the members recording area on this forum at the moment) and as long as I use Pianoteq to provide the sound I find the results rather pleasing. As an amateur I am not trying to emulate concert pianists here, I'm just playing for my own enjoyment. And enjoy it I do...

Sure, of course I would prefer to play on an acoustic grand (or even an upright), but to suggest that digital pianos are not suitable for practicing classical pieces is just plain wrong in my view.

You might as well argue that playing on upright pianos is a waste of time because they do not have a proper grand piano action.


Sorry but your c-minor nocturne is far from what I can call "pleasing" and is both technically and musically far above your playing level (too hard). I really dont know why all amateurs strive to play difficult things bad instead of playing simple things well?
Do you know what rubato means?

The recording was described as showing that the piano is up to the task. That would make this the first time I've heard it suggested, directly or implicitly, that a digital piano may limit the use of rubato.

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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by maucycy
Originally Posted by Chris James
I find some of the views expressed in this thread a bit strange.

I play some quite advanced pieces on my FP10, (I have a recording of one of them in the members recording area on this forum at the moment) and as long as I use Pianoteq to provide the sound I find the results rather pleasing. As an amateur I am not trying to emulate concert pianists here, I'm just playing for my own enjoyment. And enjoy it I do...

Sure, of course I would prefer to play on an acoustic grand (or even an upright), but to suggest that digital pianos are not suitable for practicing classical pieces is just plain wrong in my view.

You might as well argue that playing on upright pianos is a waste of time because they do not have a proper grand piano action.


Sorry but your c-minor nocturne is far from what I can call "pleasing" and is both technically and musically far above your playing level (too hard). I really dont know why all amateurs strive to play difficult things bad instead of playing simple things well?
Do you know what rubato means?

The recording was described as showing that the piano is up to the task. That would make this the first time I've heard it suggested, directly or implicitly, that a digital piano may limit the use of rubato.

Sometimes one could think that certain DPs, too much expensive for the value they offer, could instead encourage the use of “rubato”.

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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Chummy
At your level, I would'nt be happy if I didn't have access to a REAL acoustic piano. As a piano teacher I'd never recommend intermediate/advanced students to use a digital piano as their main practice instrument.
[...]
I never had a student that stuck on an entry level keyboard for so many (4) years...

It's kinda amusing how with the very little information provided by the OP everyone is making up a story in their mind. From your perspective you're seeing a advanced piano student, who is stuck for four years on a toy digital piano as their practice tool.

I don't think that is the case.

Usually I don't bother with responses like yours but I'll indulge. I'd advise you to re-read the OP: he's working on " Rachmaninoff's moment musicaux, Chopin's polonaise, and some Liszt etudes" ... obviously, obviously an advanced student. and Would I recommend for him to upgrade from a P-45 to a better instrument? Absolutely. At his level any player will enjoy a better instrument, make practicing and playing more fun and less effort. for the LEVEL of the pieces he's working on he should definitely have access to an acoustic piano, and if not possible for any reason whatsoever, a better digital piano at the very least. I didn't claim to know ANYTHING else regarding the OP 's situation, I just said what I RECOMMEND to MY students.


Just saying what you "don't think is the case" based on 0 facts that you provided/quoted in your post is asinine (unlike my substantiated post which helps the OP if he's indeed in that situation which seems like it based on the original post) . I don't know if you're either trolling or simply ignorant, or you just had a one time misstep. I don't know you so I don't judge.

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Originally Posted by Chummy
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Chummy
At your level, I would'nt be happy if I didn't have access to a REAL acoustic piano. As a piano teacher I'd never recommend intermediate/advanced students to use a digital piano as their main practice instrument.
[...]
I never had a student that stuck on an entry level keyboard for so many (4) years...

It's kinda amusing how with the very little information provided by the OP everyone is making up a story in their mind. From your perspective you're seeing a advanced piano student, who is stuck for four years on a toy digital piano as their practice tool.

I don't think that is the case.

Usually I don't bother with responses like yours but I'll indulge. I'd advise you to re-read the OP: he's working on " Rachmaninoff's moment musicaux, Chopin's polonaise, and some Liszt etudes" ... obviously, obviously an advanced student. and Would I recommend for him to upgrade from a P-45 to a better instrument? Absolutely. At his level any player will enjoy a better instrument, make practicing and playing more fun and less effort. for the LEVEL of the pieces he's working on he should definitely have access to an acoustic piano, and if not possible for any reason whatsoever, a better digital piano at the very least. I didn't claim to know ANYTHING else regarding the OP 's situation, I just said what I RECOMMEND to MY students.


Just saying what you "don't think is the case" based on 0 facts that you provided/quoted in your post is asinine (unlike my substantiated post which helps the OP if he's indeed in that situation which seems like it based on the original post) . I don't know if you're either trolling or simply ignorant, or you just had a one time misstep. I don't know you so I don't judge.

Also, I have to say that I had 2 hours to lose yesterday and I have used them by reading close to all the comments of Joe. It is quite revealing, if you have time to lose. I think we should not take too seriously his writings. He might not be 100 % what he claims to be. I guess that is the magic of forum, we never really know from where the people speaks. It is really time consuming.

Last edited by playplayplay; 09/20/21 03:08 AM.

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Originally Posted by AmPianistComposer
I currently own a Yamaha P-45 (four years old) and I'm currently working on Rachmaninoff's moment musicaux, Chopin's polonaise, and some Liszt etudes...

Do you think this piano meets the requirements?
Lately, I have been feeling that this piano is not performing up to the mark (not receiving the right sound and touch response that I expect).
I've worked on different ways to improvise my technique, but I still don't see a change.

What do you think?
Should I upgrade to a new one? Any tips?
IMHO it is very simple: if you want to play/practice "classical" piano music at professional level, soon or later an acoustic piano will be absolutely necessary in your professional path. The sooner the better.
In all the other scenarios, even a low-end DP (but not too much low-end!) can be enough, depending from the needs and expectations of the pianist. Of course, the more the better. The closest to an acoustic is an hybrid DP. You'll get the same action of an acoustic, but not the same sound...

Anyway, I think a P45 is not enough if you already are an amateur but decent piano player. All the more so if you are a very good piano player. AFAIK the P45 has an inferior piano engine compared to the P125, and it has a max polyphony of 64 voices VS the 192 of the P125.
Quote
I've lately been considering the Yamaha Clavinova and Kawai Concert Artist series.
Maybe-
=> Yamaha clp 785 or 795gp
OR
=> Kawai ca99

It would be helpful if you could also provide insights on which of the two mentioned are better too! smile

Thanks!
AmPianistComposer
Between the Yamaha and Kawai models you mentioned I think Kawai has the better keyboard action, Yamaha the better piano sound quality. But this is very subjective and you should really try yourself.

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Originally Posted by peterws
Maybe that's what we like about these forums and the postings. Maybe that's what keeps us here when new models are scarce and hardy available . . .
It then behoves us all to use a little imagination, to evoke a less than little backlash. It makes the world turn and burn.
But I didn't light the fire!

Righto my friend peterws ..... ‘oo needs an OP to keep threads alive and burnin i say ? may haps ya din’t light it but me thinks you my’like avv’in a go at watchin er burn, ay? 😉 ..... and it’aint as bloody simple now as blam’in it on the Yanks agin ad nauseam, i say, ‘cause the obvious truth be told is blokes all over this freakshow world may like ‘avin a go at causin train wrecks but i say, even those oo don’t may like ‘avin a peek at watchin recks after somebody else did the favor of caus’in it, they do iffin ya know what i mean .... and remember virtual kiddies, rule #7 about forum do’s and don’ts - do NOT feed the animals ! especially the trolling kinds who may have simply fallen into your fav forum by accident thinking they landed in their intended fav beavisNbutthead forum for Assians.... you are virtually advised to carry on like many others increasingly do for aspects of this burning world .... seeking shelter in pretending it didn’t happen.


🙂

Last edited by drewr; 09/20/21 10:57 AM.

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@drewr: Nice job with the lingo. I hope peterws takes it in the spirit intended.

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I've excused your French.


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Holy grail, I´ve never expected you to put a capital letter to French.


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I dont believe I've come across such a thread anywhere in the internet. Yes, a digital is more than sufficient to learn on, provided one plays at his/her teacher's acoustic once a week. To claim otherwise is pure elitism, or ignorance.....or trolling.
Case in point my son. He only has my ew 300, the most unsuitable instrument to learn on, and when we went to his first class, two days ago, he played for 90 minutes on his teacher's grand with ease. I, on the other hand, didnt manage to make it produce sound..... because I've never practiced on an acoustic.
Still, I am not sure what to get him. A p515 now, or a Young Chang y 121 upright for Christmas? (So I can save up some money) He does prefer upright pianos to digitals, but we are talking double the cost.
The irony is that my 11 year old son doesn't consider digitals to be real pianos 🤣

Last edited by Skropi; 09/20/21 12:47 PM.
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Originally Posted by drewr
Originally Posted by peterws
Maybe that's what we like about these forums and the postings. Maybe that's what keeps us here when new models are scarce and hardy available . . .
It then behoves us all to use a little imagination, to evoke a less than little backlash. It makes the world turn and burn.
But I didn't light the fire!

Righto my friend peterws ..... ‘oo needs an OP to keep threads alive and burnin i say ? may haps ya din’t light it but me thinks you my’like avv’in a go at watchin er burn, ay? 😉 ..... and it’aint as bloody simple now as blam’in it on the Yanks agin ad nauseam, i say, ‘cause the obvious truth be told is blokes all over this freakshow world may like ‘avin a go at causin train wrecks but i say, even those oo don’t may like ‘avin a peek at watchin recks after somebody else did the favor of caus’in it, they do iffin ya know what i mean .... and remember virtual kiddies, rule #7 about forum do’s and don’ts - do NOT feed the animals ! especially the trolling kinds who may have simply fallen into your fav forum by accident thinking they landed in their intended fav beavisNbutthead forum for Assians.... you are virtually advised to carry on like many others increasingly do for aspects of this burning world .... seeking shelter in pretending it didn’t happen.


🙂

Somebody likes me at last . . . . smile


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Originally Posted by Skropi
The irony is that my 11 year old son doesn't consider digitals to be real pianos 🤣

I wonder where he got that from? Oh, I know, his teacher!

Yes, this sounds like conservatory-talk: “digital pianos are not real.”

Ironically enough, many conservatories are now buying hybrids by the dozen; of course, if you ask them about this, they will say the ‘fake digitals’ are there for use in case of an emergency only; whatever the heck that means.

Digital pianos are as real and true as you and I, and not only that, but I know for a fact that companies like Yamaha and Kawai are already in the process of dropping the upright-acoustic once and for all, and this will ultimately extend to the baby, the grand, and the 9’ beast.

Now, whilst the upright will be dropped (never again produced), the remaining ‘grands’ will be built in much smaller quantities and then, at some point, only on a per-order basis (very expensive). This, my friend, this is very real!


The future belongs to the digital, and please don’t give me the usual “hammers hitting strings”, and “wall of sound”, and “robust resonances” defense because the real-modern-piano (digital) will not need outdated hammers hitting basic strings to produce the biggest wall of sound(s) and most infinite resonances ever to be heard from a small physical footprint that can fit in the smallest of places and will be priced for the common man and not for the ‘hand-made’ elite!

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by Skropi
The irony is that my 11 year old son doesn't consider digitals to be real pianos 🤣

I wonder where he got that from? Oh, I know, his teacher!

Yes, this sounds like conservatory-talk: “digital pianos are not real.”

Ironically enough, many conservatories are now buying hybrids by the dozen; of course, if you ask them about this, they will say the ‘fake digitals’ are there for use in case of an emergency only; whatever the heck that means.

Digital pianos are as real and true as you and I, and not only that, but I know for a fact that companies like Yamaha and Kawai are already in the process of dropping the upright-acoustic once and for all, and this will ultimately extend to the baby, the grand, and the 9’ beast.

Now, whilst the upright will be dropped (never again produced), the remaining ‘grands’ will be built in much smaller quantities and then, at some point, only on a per-order basis (very expensive). This, my friend, this is very real!


The future belongs to the digital, and please don’t give me the usual “hammers hitting strings”, and “wall of sound”, and “robust resonances” defense because the real-modern-piano (digital) will not need outdated hammers hitting basic strings to produce the biggest wall of sound(s) and most infinite resonances ever to be heard from a small physical footprint that can fit in the smallest of places and will be priced for the common man and not for the ‘hand-made’ elite!
Nope, he didnt get it from his teacher. He came to this conclusion because he is playing uprights and grands for three years, at the conservatory, while practicing at a yamaha ew 300 at home. He really prefers the grand action, but when he played a p515 a a store, he liked it.
Today I am thinking about ordering a p515 with the stand and pedal. Only problem is that it will cost around 1700€, and I could get a clp 725 for a bit less, so I am really undecided.

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Have you tried both? Aren't they quite similar, save for the P-model not having a cabinet?
Or is the P515 more like a CLP745 minus the cabinet?
If the latter, then I'd definitely recommend the P515.
Originally Posted by Skropi
Today I am thinking about ordering a P515 with the stand and pedal. Only problem is that it will cost around 1700€, and I could get a CLP725 for a bit less, so I am really undecided.

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A Yamaha PSR-EW300 is also not a real digital piano. 😉

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Have you tried both? Aren't they quite similar, save for the P-model not having a cabinet?
Or is the P515 more like a CLP745 minus the cabinet?
If the latter, then I'd definitely recommend the P515.
Originally Posted by Skropi
Today I am thinking about ordering a P515 with the stand and pedal. Only problem is that it will cost around 1700€, and I could get a CLP725 for a bit less, so I am really undecided.
We tried the clp 735, and frankly, the differences in feel, although real, aren't so big to sway my son in any direction. He liked both of them. We didnt try the 725, but I gather it has the same action as the 735. There wasn't a 745 to try, so I really don't know how different it is.

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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
A Yamaha PSR-EW300 is also not a real digital piano. 😉
Lol exactly 😃 That's why I cant play a grand......yet.

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Joe T great answer —imho—if you are not gigging out, and can play an acoustic at home w/o disturbing the world, get a real piano—-I have an entire digital set up on one side of my room -never touch it hardly-
I was blessed to find a Yamaha U 1 that wasn’t used at a college but but sat in house —certified tech inspected —pristine -that’s what I play 5hrs a day, it maintains tune and regulation …
digital without real strings , even the expensive Clavinovas just feel like a toy to me.. just follow everyone’s advice and get it inspected—-yes there’s 10,000 parts to go wrong but you have nightmares w digitals too.

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