2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
60 members (CraiginNZ, brdwyguy, 36251, anotherscott, CharlesXX, Chris Pringle, Carey, 14 invisible), 1,357 guests, and 402 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
Hello everyone,
I have been looking for a slab recently (actually I wanted something cheap around 600Euros).
In the store they had a p-515 which I already had tested briefly in march when I bought my CLP-745. And weirdly now I feel like I like the sound and the feeling of the p515 way better than the CLP745.
Back in march I didn't like the p515 too much because of the action. Now that I played it in that store, it felt and sounded gorgeous. They also had a CLP745 so I went and compared them both. I was sitting in that shop for more than two hours. I found myself loving the action and the tone of the p515 way better than the one of the clp745. It had a certain warmth and smothness to it and the dynamic response somehow felt more fluid and natural. The 745 for sure sounds good, but its tone sounds a little more cold and sterile in comparison to the p515. The change in tone colour going from p to ff sounds also more colourful on it.
I found someone online who would actually buy my 745 for almost the same price I paid due to the shortage of instruments. I showed him the weird resonances I sometimes get from my Instrument but they didnt seem to bother him.

Now I am little confused whether selling my CLP745 to get a p515 is a rather stupid action to take, because on paper I am literally doing a downgrade.
What do you think about the whole situation ? Any Thoughts on my stupidity crazy

Greetz Gaia

Last edited by GaiaImpact; 09/11/21 06:32 AM.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
Oh and by the way selling my CLP-745 and buying a p-515 would leave me at +1000Euros. This is also a reason why I even consider this whole thing.

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,993
C
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,993
You should have the piano you like more.

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,549
P
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,549
I’ve wondered about this myself (P-515 vs. 745) and personally, if I can’t go for the 775\785, I’d simply stick with my P-515.

It all comes down to the speakers for me; and I’m not speaking about size but rather about placement. I believe that four speakers tucked into a cabinet just isn’t enough for a decent sound-field, and unlike the 745, the speakers on my P-515, though smallish, are completely unobstructed, and therefore, ‘ring’ more clearly -right in your face- and naturally.

This brings me to my long standing point: the cabinet design and how the speakers are positioned within it is essential.

An upright piano-type cabinet is a challenge when it comes to this, and I believe that if they’ve decided against using more speakers then the cabinet should be smaller in order for things to even out; but then again, most people don’t notice these things and are more interested in ‘looks’ rather than overall performance. Yamaha knows this, and seizes on the opportunity.

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,773
D
dmd Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,773
Originally Posted by GaiaImpact
I found someone online who would actually buy my 745 for almost the same price I paid due to the shortage of instruments. I showed him the weird resonances I sometimes get from my Instrument but they didnt seem to bother him.

Since you apparently are not completely happy with your 745, I Would do the "selling" now .... while you have a buyer .... and figure out what to purchase after that.

Then, you are free to start over and find something you really like.


Don

Kawai MP7SE, Edifier R1850DB Bookshelf speakers, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,527
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,527
Originally Posted by GaiaImpact
Oh and by the way selling my CLP-745 and buying a p-515 would leave me at +1000Euros. This is also a reason why I even consider this whole thing.

Well, you'd be able to upgrade your amplification, as the cabinet system isn't impressive. The P515 is old and needs updating. Currently, a better exchange would be to sell for an ES920. However, the P515 might be upgraded soon. Then you might get a competitive action (one that's a bit lighter) and binaural Bosendorfer.

Couple that with a nice set of monitors - - - Neumann KH120A, Adam A7X, something equivalent from Genelec or Focal---and you'd have a better experience than you get with the CLP745.

Tbh though, another option is to save for a top cabinet piano, where the amplification is good enough to overcome the cabinet.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 721
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 721
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
You should have the piano you like more.

+2

If you end up with something you truly like better, does it matter that it took a downgrade or flashback or even a flash-sideways experience to finally arrive there? ..... sometimes down really is up.

Last edited by drewr; 09/11/21 10:50 AM.

- Kawai MP7 and LSR308 monitors
- Roland HP-508
- DT770 Pro-80 and MDR-7506 phones
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
Thanks for the quick and plenty responses.

Originally Posted by dmd
Then, you are free to start over and find something you really like.

I think you certainly got a point there. I can still make up my mind After having sold.
Both the ES920 and the P515 are available right now in my Region. Although the p515 only is there in white. Black ones would be in stock around Nov/Dec.


Originally Posted by Doug M.
Well, you'd be able to upgrade your amplification, as the cabinet system isn't impressive. The P515 is old and needs updating. Currently, a better exchange would be to sell for an ES920. However, the P515 might be upgraded soon. Then you might get a competitive action (one that's a bit lighter) and binaural Bosendorfer.

I tried the ES920 several times in different stores (unfortunately no store having the p515 and the ES920) and I don’t know why but neither the action nor the tone did really impress me. I will certainly give it another shot before I make my final decision but by now the p515 is my preferred Contendor.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Pete14
This brings me to my long standing point: the cabinet design and how the speakers are positioned within it is essential.

Totally agree with that one. In the direct coparison the CLP745 felt i Little More „in your Face“ whereas the p515 was more open Stundung which I personally seem to prefer.
However at the cost of sounding a Little less clear Compared to the speaker setup in the 745.

Last edited by GaiaImpact; 09/11/21 03:12 PM.
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 198
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 198
It's hard to argue against your points (you like the tone/action of the 515 and the exchange will provide you with extra cash). However -- and as someone who is also comparing both of these for a purchase, I have to admit that I prefer the tone/action of the 745 to those of the 515. I even prefer the extra clarity provided by the 745's speakers. IMO the 515 will also get an upgrade before the next generation of the CLP series is out.
Just wanted to share my own findings... Wish you the best with the 515 as it's also an awesome slab in its own rights!


Can't accommodate an acoustic, but that doesn't mean my love of great digitals is a bit less fervent.
-- Piano Lover Forever
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,527
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,527
Originally Posted by GaiaImpact
Thanks for the quick and plenty responses.

Originally Posted by dmd
Then, you are free to start over and find something you really like.

I think you certainly got a point there. I can still make up my mind After having sold.
Both the ES920 and the P515 are available right now in my Region. Although the p515 only is there in white. Black ones would be in stock around Nov/Dec.


Originally Posted by Doug M.
Well, you'd be able to upgrade your amplification, as the cabinet system isn't impressive. The P515 is old and needs updating. Currently, a better exchange would be to sell for an ES920. However, the P515 might be upgraded soon. Then you might get a competitive action (one that's a bit lighter) and binaural Bosendorfer.

I tried the ES920 several times in different stores (unfortunately no store having the p515 and the ES920) and I don’t know why but neither the action nor the tone did really impress me. I will certainly give it another shot before I make my final decision but by now the p515 is my preferred Contendor.

My larger point is to consider awaiting an upgrade on the P515, and go for better amplification.
If you're used to Yamaha sound, you might benefit from a much longer testing session on the Kawai. Does sometimes take a bit of time to acclimatize. to new sound.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,361
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,361
I preferred the action on the CLP735 to that on the P515, but that of the 775 surprised me more. It was really nice.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) for me, Pianoteq improved greatly at around the time I bought my 515, and I began hearing stuff on that instrument that I didn't like, so it just . . had to go.
I would never get another.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 109
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by Doug M.
The P515 is old and needs updating.
Neither one nor the other. Not only that 3 years are not old at all, technically in some respect it is even more than up to date: Yamaha's binaural headphone sound is still unsurpased and the P515 is by far the least expensive entry bill to this advanced feature.
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Currently, a better exchange would be to sell for an ES920.
If you need less weight for travel, and if you are willing to trade in some build quality for that, if you favour a more spongy keyboard like action, and if you have to stick to the built-in speakers for some reasons - the ES920 might be the better option.
But if you prefer use at home, as you are looking for a CLP745 replacement and if you should be in a pianistic sense more classically ambitioned, the P515 in my opinion is the far better alternative.
Originally Posted by Doug M.
However, the P515 might be upgraded soon.
The P-Series upgrade cycle in recent years has been 4 or more towards 5 years. Given the delay due to the pandemic I would not expect a successor available to purchase before 2023
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Then you might get a competitive action (one that's a bit lighter) and binaural Bosendorfer.
The NWX is heavier but still rated very good and among the best compact built actions for classical trained pianists. You should try to compare it to your CLP 745, the action of which will probably be transferred to the P515 successor, as the newer samples as well. To get binaural Bösendorfer and f.e. Key Off for CFX also sounds nice but wether it makes a worthwile difference for you is more a matter of personal taste.
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Couple that with a nice set of monitors - - - Neumann KH120A, Adam A7X, something equivalent from Genelec or Focal---and you'd have a better experience than you get with the CLP745.
Agreed, but the far more less expensive iLoud near field monitors will do the same. (connected to the headphone outputs and switched to binaural gives an impressive sound qualitiy)

Last edited by Kammerklang; 09/13/21 09:59 AM.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Doug M.
My larger point is to consider awaiting an upgrade on the P515, and go for better amplification.
If you're used to Yamaha sound, you might benefit from a much longer testing session on the Kawai. Does sometimes take a bit of time to acclimatize. to new sound.

Honestly I don't think I want the upgraded version of the p-515. Especially not if it has the newer sound engine of the current clp700 series, since I found myself preferring the older sample on the p515, but thats just my taste. And actually I come from the Kawai corner (had a CA13 for 8 or 9 years) and just recently bought the CLP745. I don't know why but I feel like the Kawai sound has changed a lot in the last years and especially in the upper registers there are certain notes too harsh for my liking. I had this feeling with the CA79 which I had ten days before returning and with the ES920 I tested in the store as well. Not to say they are badly sampled but I just don't feel comfortable with their current sound.

The only problem I am facing right now is that there are no p515s new in black available. I could buy a bstock in black for like 100 Euros discount (paying 1300 Euros for the keyboard only), but I don't now if that's a good deal or if I should wait for new units to be in stock (which would be somewhen between oct - Nov).

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,496
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,496
In 2018 the P-515 hit gold and is still a smash hit for reason. It's ridiculous talk about a replacement model, while it's still sold out due to high demand.

In fact once you have the formula perfected, you don't need a new model for at least a decade to come. The longer you sell it, the more revenue you make. I think Yamaha is pretty happy how their slab turned out.


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 173
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by AmPianistComposer
I currently own a Yamaha P-45 (four years old) and I'm currently working on Rachmaninoff's moment musicaux, Chopin's polonaise, and some Liszt etudes...

Do you think this piano meets the requirements?

It's not a real piano. It's a digital keyboard with a folded action.

Quote
Should I upgrade to a new one? Any tips?

I've lately been considering the Yamaha Clavinova and Kawai Concert Artist series.
Maybe-
=> Yamaha clp 785 or 795gp
OR
=> Kawai ca99

It would be helpful if you could also provide insights on which of the two mentioned are better too! smile

Same basic technology, more bells and whistles.

The money you would spend on them gets you a real upright piano.

Seems someone, in another thread, is giving advice to purchase acoustic, since digital pianos (and thus the P-515 and clp-745) are not real piano only digital Keyboards with folded action. Only bells and whistles...

After this, it seems that you should forget the clp745 and the p-515 and go for the p-45. Less bells and whistles and may be you could add a 2nd hand acoustic. Or only acoustic.

OTOH, if you like more the p-515 and trust your feelings, it might be worth listening to yourself and buy the p-515.


Adult Beginner - Kawai ES920 - Pianoteq Standard -
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,496
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,496
The adult beginner gets confused by the fact that someone practicing Liszt etudes on P-45 needs a real piano, while the P-515 is still a smash hit in the slab piano category.

I use my own P-515 to accompany and improvise over songs*) with and without lead sheets, using the built-in rhythm section and the MIDI sequencer. This is what the P-515 has been built for and this is also what I teach others, while I don't teach Bach, Chopin and Rachmaninoff, because that's neither what I'm qualified for (despite being classically trained) nor what I have the gear for: A proper grand piano is the minimum requirement for a classical piano teacher.

*) A song is something to be sung, works written for solo piano are usually not songs.


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 173
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 173
Fair enough. But is the p-515 a piano or a keyboard with folded action.
Also the profesor, that you are, has forgotten to ask what the OP is playing, because if he is playing/learning classical, may be he should not buy a keyboard with folded action (and bells and whistles) but better an acoustic.
Generally speaking keyboards with folded action are not good for playing classical. Is that your point?


Adult Beginner - Kawai ES920 - Pianoteq Standard -
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,496
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,496
Originally Posted by playplayplay
Also the profesor, that you are, has forgotten to ask what the OP is playing

It's the OP's duty to inform what they want to use their gear for. If someone wants to return a Gibson Les Paul for a lower-end model, you usually don't ask if they want to use it to play Romance Anónimo.

This thread however started a discussion if the P-515 is outdated and needs a new model and I don't think so and I justified my opinion. This is obviously backed by the experience, that there won't be a "more realistic" action or sound engine in a slab piano really. That's just physically impossible.

Quote
Generally speaking keyboards with folded action are not good for playing classical. Is that your point?

Once upon a time a slab with the GH action was the lowest end model Yamaha sold (at about $999 I believe). During the recent years there has been a race to the bottom in the sub-$1000 category (with models like Yamaha P-45 and Roland FP-10 showing up) and Casio managed to produce the worst offender so far. I listed the disadvantages of digital pianos in the Casio thread: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...o-px-s3100-and-px-s1100.html#Post3155318

The hybrid variety might solve some of these problems still present in the more expensive digital piano models (they all share the same DNA), however hybrids are so rare and expensive, that I've seen a hybrid once in my life and I like to speak from experience. So I go with the safe bet: A new or used upright piano with or without silent option is the best affordable practice tool for beginning piano students. And unlike the P-515, which is backordered 19 weeks in Europe, the Yamaha b1 is in stock (with the silent variety being more expensive and in more demand).


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 173
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 173
Thank you for your answer.
Would you recommand to have a p-515 to learn/practice/play classical pieces or is it only worth to play songs? (if the OP can only have digital piano).
Would that produce bad behaviors?

Last edited by playplayplay; 09/14/21 06:07 AM.

Adult Beginner - Kawai ES920 - Pianoteq Standard -
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Cannon in D Question
by KimbraLaLa - 09/26/21 07:55 PM
Kawai PN100 Digital Piano
by ZDAVE - 09/26/21 05:44 PM
Question about technique
by ItoM_ - 09/26/21 03:37 PM
Mushy Bass Notes - Problem or too much Pedal
by brdwyguy - 09/26/21 02:10 PM
Recording a DP for lessons
by AndyOnThePiano - 09/26/21 12:05 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Our Free Newsletter for Piano Lovers!
The summer edition of our free newsletter
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics209,301
Posts3,135,365
Members102,827
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5