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I'm guessing that Casio paid Bechstein to use their name.

Casio has been making low-end keyboards for years.
But a calculator company lacks cachet in the console piano world, especially at the high end.
So a paid-for brand name like Bechstein lends some credence to Casio's presence in that market.

And ... maybe Casio sampled a Bechstein piano?

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Originally Posted by vagfilm
Pete... Welcome back...

On the other hand: is it really you? Four paragraphs of sensible comments... I want the real Pete.


Originally Posted by Pete14
#therealpete grin
Originally Posted by vagfilm
Really: you were missed, and several noted your prolonged absence.

Now, get back to the usual nonsense...

Shirley i’m not alone in having missed the previous real Pete14 who was then and i hope will hereon continue being the same, well-spoken witty blend of sensical AND non real Pete14! FULL STOP and sans the seemingly obligatory “imho” nonsen ... er, polite placations !! 🙂


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I'm guessing that Casio paid Bechstein to use their name.

Casio has been making low-end keyboards for years.
But a calculator company lacks cachet in the console piano world, especially at the high end.
So a paid-for brand name like Bechstein lends some credence to Casio's presence in that market.

And ... maybe Casio sampled a Bechstein piano?
If you listened to Stu you will know that they sampled a Bechstein, Steinway and Bosendorfer.


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There's the ususal Casio bashing going on in this thread. I think it is highly implausible that any of us knows how much Bechstein was involved with the GP-action. It could be 100% Bechstein, it could be 1% Bechstein. How would any of us know?

What we do know is that Bechstein has allowed their name to be associated with the GP line, so presumeably they did not feel that their name would be tarnished from this association.

By the way, I think the Casio/Bechstein action runs circles around any non-hybrid action from Yamaha and Kawai. YMMV.


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Tenor1
I'm actually agreeing with you. I've had a GP-500 for two years. It's the action that I've loved and not the sound that's why I said the Bechstein portion of the collaboration. But your saying that Bechstein had very little involvement at all, which I didn't know.

Yes I think the Bechstein link is very tenuous. On a practical level I just don't think they had anything to do with it.

At the right price I happen to think the 500 or 510 is quite a decent thing but I always objected to their marketing approach which I don't think was/is particularly honest.

What's interesting is your comment about the upgraded speakers for the 510. From memory the 500 was criticised for two principle things - lack of volume through speakers and lack of sustain in the three main piano samples. I think Casio have addressed both areas but probably didn't work hard enough with the speaker volume issue. As you rightly say, more volume does not necessarily equal better.

The lack of volume and sustain is very different in the GP-310 that I got to play. But the issues of the piano sounds and that there is such a marked difference headphone vs speaker sound is not addressed. That killed the deal of me buying a GP-510. My sister is especially sick of hearing me say that I wish the speakers sounded like the headphones. So when the unfortunately water disaster occurred and I needed to to replace it, I couldn't unless THAT issue is fixed. The NV5 pushed all the right buttons AND one was available, plus a price reduction due to the newer version, plus the insurance payout was for 100% (including tax) for the Casio. Their one caveat was I had to buy a replacement in a short time frame, longer and they would take a depreciation of at least 20%. There was a lot of pressure just to order the GP510 and wait for some unknown length of time for it. So happy I didn't do that.


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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
There's the ususal Casio bashing going on in this thread. I think it is highly implausible that any of us knows how much Bechstein was involved with the GP-action. It could be 100% Bechstein, it could be 1% Bechstein. How would any of us know?

What we do know is that Bechstein has allowed their name to be associated with the GP line, so presumeably they did not feel that their name would be tarnished from this association.

By the way, I think the Casio/Bechstein action runs circles around any non-hybrid action from Yamaha and Kawai. YMMV.

I agree with the action comparison and wish Bechstein collaborated with either Kawai or Yamaha. After having the GP-500 for two years it's the action that I'm still in love with.


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Yes I think the Bechstein link is very tenuous. On a practical level I just don't think they had anything to do with it.

At the right price I happen to think the 500 or 510 is quite a decent thing but I always objected to their marketing approach which I don't think was/is particularly honest.

While i do not disagree, and while i leave enough room for the unlikely possibility that what goes on over on your side of the pond may somehow avoid global forces of things marketed such that despite those great odds, such activity where you call home continues in the present day by involving genuinely honest marketing ..... in other words, to me “ ..... marketing approach which i don’t think was is particularly honest...” is redundant, for any corporate marketing endeavor anywhere for any type of big or small marketed item or service for sale worldwide across virtually any and all markets ,..... but this is only what i think .... YTMMV .... is there any so-called data to corroborate the supposition of honest marketing in the narrow field of DP marketing?


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Originally Posted by drewr
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Yes I think the Bechstein link is very tenuous. On a practical level I just don't think they had anything to do with it.

At the right price I happen to think the 500 or 510 is quite a decent thing but I always objected to their marketing approach which I don't think was/is particularly honest.

While i do not disagree, and while i leave enough room for the unlikely possibility that what goes on over on your side of the pond may somehow avoid global forces of things marketed such that despite those great odds, such activity where you call home continues in the present day by involving genuinely honest marketing ..... in other words, to me “ ..... marketing approach which i don’t think was is particularly honest...” is redundant, for any corporate marketing endeavor anywhere for any type of big or small marketed item or service for sale worldwide across virtually any and all markets ,..... but this is only what i think .... YTMMV .... is there any so-called data to corroborate the supposition of honest marketing in the narrow field of DP marketing?

This is my take: The impression is always projected (by Casio and its retailers) that the Casio contains a Bechstein action. What are the facts? Buried in all the hyperbole is the only specific claim that I'm aware of, and that is that the Casio keys are "made from the same materials" as Bechstein. Wow. Big deal. It's wood. Just like my (non Bechstein) shed door. If there was more to it, more hard factual stuff linking Bechstein to the Casio's action you can bet your bottom dollar they'd say so VERY specifically. I find all this stuff to have a strong whiff of sleazy dishonesty.

For what it's worth I think the Casio action is good. Very nimble feeling. It's the marketing I have an issue with.

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It's not just bullcrud from Casio marketing. The crud is everywhere.

But credit Casio for one thing: At least they don't claim that their pianos are filled with "factory air conditioned air from our fully factory-equipped air conditioned factory".

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Originally Posted by Pete14
I must say that I, too, find myself disagreeing with Stu regarding his key-length description as it relates to the GP-510. The length is not at the level of a concert grand, and what bothers me, some, is the fact that Stu very much knows this, yet still he looks straight into the camera and very nonchalantly goes about spreading this misinformation.

I understand that some ‘online’ salesmen genuinely have no idea, but Stu is very well versed on the matter: “the inner workings of a piano”. He knows that there is a huge difference between the GP-510’s keys -length- and those of a concert grand.

And I might even speculate that the keys are not built to the same standards of a high quality concert grand (length aside); if anything, I wouldn’t doubt if the keys for the GP-510 are built from the scraps that didn’t make the cut (no pun intended) for use in an acoustic.

That being said, the GP-510 is still a very competitive instrument (hybrid), and I do agree with him on calling the GP-510 a hybrid because if Kawai gets to call the “CA” a hybrid because of the wooden perspective of the soundboard, then Casio should be allowed to do the same for using -leftover- Bechstein keys.

Actually, Stu does make mistakes on the tech side sometimes. He said that the Kawai NV5 had fully modelled sound (when referring to the rendering engine), whereas, the tech specs:

SK-EX Rendering
 - 88-key multi-channel sampling
 - SK-EX recording

So, I'm not sure how totally sure he is on the details.


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by drewr
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Yes I think the Bechstein link is very tenuous. On a practical level I just don't think they had anything to do with it.

At the right price I happen to think the 500 or 510 is quite a decent thing but I always objected to their marketing approach which I don't think was/is particularly honest.

While i do not disagree, and while i leave enough room for the unlikely possibility that what goes on over on your side of the pond may somehow avoid global forces of things marketed such that despite those great odds, such activity where you call home continues in the present day by involving genuinely honest marketing ..... in other words, to me “ ..... marketing approach which i don’t think was is particularly honest...” is redundant, for any corporate marketing endeavor anywhere for any type of big or small marketed item or service for sale worldwide across virtually any and all markets ,..... but this is only what i think .... YTMMV .... is there any so-called data to corroborate the supposition of honest marketing in the narrow field of DP marketing?

This is my take: The impression is always projected (by Casio and its retailers) that the Casio contains a Bechstein action. What are the facts? Buried in all the hyperbole is the only specific claim that I'm aware of, and that is that the Casio keys are "made from the same materials" as Bechstein. Wow. Big deal. It's wood. Just like my (non Bechstein) shed door. If there was more to it, more hard factual stuff linking Bechstein to the Casio's action you can bet your bottom dollar they'd say so VERY specifically. I find all this stuff to have a strong whiff of sleazy dishonesty.

For what it's worth I think the Casio action is good. Very nimble feeling. It's the marketing I have an issue with.

My retailer only claimed the wooden part of the keys were attributed to Bechstein and nothing else.


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
It's not just bullcrud from Casio marketing. The crud is everywhere.

But credit Casio for one thing: At least they don't claim that their pianos are filled with "factory air conditioned air from our fully factory-equipped air conditioned factory".

Oh MY Casio did come with factory-fresh air and even after two years it smells the same as day one.


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Originally Posted by Tenor1
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by drewr
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Yes I think the Bechstein link is very tenuous. On a practical level I just don't think they had anything to do with it.

At the right price I happen to think the 500 or 510 is quite a decent thing but I always objected to their marketing approach which I don't think was/is particularly honest.

While i do not disagree, and while i leave enough room for the unlikely possibility that what goes on over on your side of the pond may somehow avoid global forces of things marketed such that despite those great odds, such activity where you call home continues in the present day by involving genuinely honest marketing ..... in other words, to me “ ..... marketing approach which i don’t think was is particularly honest...” is redundant, for any corporate marketing endeavor anywhere for any type of big or small marketed item or service for sale worldwide across virtually any and all markets ,..... but this is only what i think .... YTMMV .... is there any so-called data to corroborate the supposition of honest marketing in the narrow field of DP marketing?

This is my take: The impression is always projected (by Casio and its retailers) that the Casio contains a Bechstein action. What are the facts? Buried in all the hyperbole is the only specific claim that I'm aware of, and that is that the Casio keys are "made from the same materials" as Bechstein. Wow. Big deal. It's wood. Just like my (non Bechstein) shed door. If there was more to it, more hard factual stuff linking Bechstein to the Casio's action you can bet your bottom dollar they'd say so VERY specifically. I find all this stuff to have a strong whiff of sleazy dishonesty.

For what it's worth I think the Casio action is good. Very nimble feeling. It's the marketing I have an issue with.

My retailer only claimed the wooden part of the keys were attributed to Bechstein and nothing else.

The Casio marketing in the manual states:

Quote
Fulcrum distance from keys:
The position of the fulcrum with respect to the keys
is exactly the same as with a grand piano. This
contributes to stable playing performance, since
the touch is never heavier or lighter depending on
the position at which a finger strikes a key.


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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by Tenor1
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by drewr
[quote=EssBrace]


Yes I think the Bechstein link is very tenuous. On a practical level I just don't think they had anything to do with it.

At the right price I happen to think the 500 or 510 is quite a decent thing but I always objected to their marketing approach which I don't think was/is particularly honest.

While i do not disagree, and while i leave enough room for the unlikely possibility that what goes on over on your side of the pond may somehow avoid global forces of things marketed such that despite those great odds, such activity where you call home continues in the present day by involving genuinely honest marketing ..... in other words, to me “ ..... marketing approach which i don’t think was is particularly honest...” is redundant, for any corporate marketing endeavor anywhere for any type of big or small marketed item or service for sale worldwide across virtually any and all markets ,..... but this is only what i think .... YTMMV .... is there any so-called data to corroborate the supposition of honest marketing in the narrow field of DP marketing?

This is my take: The impression is always projected (by Casio and its retailers) that the Casio contains a Bechstein action. What are the facts? Buried in all the hyperbole is the only specific claim that I'm aware of, and that is that the Casio keys are "made from the same materials" as Bechstein. Wow. Big deal. It's wood. Just like my (non Bechstein) shed door. If there was more to it, more hard factual stuff linking Bechstein to the Casio's action you can bet your bottom dollar they'd say so VERY specifically. I find all this stuff to have a strong whiff of sleazy dishonesty.

For what it's worth I think the Casio action is good. Very nimble feeling. It's the marketing I have an issue with.

My retailer only claimed the wooden part of the keys were attributed to Bechstein and nothing else.

The Casio marketing in the manual states:

Quote
Fulcrum distance from keys:
The position of the fulcrum with respect to the keys
is exactly the same as with a grand piano. This
contributes to stable playing performance, since
the touch is never heavier or lighter depending on
the position at which a finger strikes a key.
[/quote]

Which could mean the stick length in the Casio is half the length in the grand. May not be an important distinction and the distance to the fulcrum is important. But technically may not mean the sticks are the same

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Originally Posted by mrklaw
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by Tenor1
Originally Posted by EssBrace
[quote=drewr][quote=EssBrace]


Yes I think the Bechstein link is very tenuous. On a practical level I just don't think they had anything to do with it.

At the right price I happen to think the 500 or 510 is quite a decent thing but I always objected to their marketing approach which I don't think was/is particularly honest.

While i do not disagree, and while i leave enough room for the unlikely possibility that what goes on over on your side of the pond may somehow avoid global forces of things marketed such that despite those great odds, such activity where you call home continues in the present day by involving genuinely honest marketing ..... in other words, to me “ ..... marketing approach which i don’t think was is particularly honest...” is redundant, for any corporate marketing endeavor anywhere for any type of big or small marketed item or service for sale worldwide across virtually any and all markets ,..... but this is only what i think .... YTMMV .... is there any so-called data to corroborate the supposition of honest marketing in the narrow field of DP marketing?

This is my take: The impression is always projected (by Casio and its retailers) that the Casio contains a Bechstein action. What are the facts? Buried in all the hyperbole is the only specific claim that I'm aware of, and that is that the Casio keys are "made from the same materials" as Bechstein. Wow. Big deal. It's wood. Just like my (non Bechstein) shed door. If there was more to it, more hard factual stuff linking Bechstein to the Casio's action you can bet your bottom dollar they'd say so VERY specifically. I find all this stuff to have a strong whiff of sleazy dishonesty.

For what it's worth I think the Casio action is good. Very nimble feeling. It's the marketing I have an issue with.

My retailer only claimed the wooden part of the keys were attributed to Bechstein and nothing else.

The Casio marketing in the manual states:

Quote
Fulcrum distance from keys:
The position of the fulcrum with respect to the keys
is exactly the same as with a grand piano. This
contributes to stable playing performance, since
the touch is never heavier or lighter depending on
the position at which a finger strikes a key.
[/quote]

Which could mean the stick length in the Casio is half the length in the grand. May not be an important distinction and the distance to the fulcrum is important. But technically may not mean the sticks are the same[/quote]

Yep.

Stu is a great reviewer and gives really good reviews on the whole, but occasionally there are errors in technical details. Can be easily forgiven, as other aspects of the reviews are top.

Most reviewers make some errors from time to time.


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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Yep.

Stu is a great reviewer and gives really good reviews on the whole, but occasionally there are errors in technical details. Can be easily forgiven, as other aspects of the reviews are top.

Most reviewers make some errors from time to time.

completely agree. very easy to get online anonymously and call someone a liar. quite a different thing to put your real name, face, musical expertise, and professionalism up regularly as stu harrison does.

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Originally Posted by Tenor1
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
It's not just bullcrud from Casio marketing. The crud is everywhere.

But credit Casio for one thing: At least they don't claim that their pianos are filled with "factory air conditioned air from our fully factory-equipped air conditioned factory".

Oh MY Casio did come with factory-fresh air and even after two years it smells the same as day one.

Is it fair to say it smelled as fresh as “ just after a summer rain” ?


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Originally Posted by drewr
Originally Posted by Tenor1
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
It's not just bullcrud from Casio marketing. The crud is everywhere.

But credit Casio for one thing: At least they don't claim that their pianos are filled with "factory air conditioned air from our fully factory-equipped air conditioned factory".

Oh MY Casio did come with factory-fresh air and even after two years it smells the same as day one.

Is it fair to say it smelled as fresh as “ just after a summer rain” ?

Just like Iris spring


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The same as with WHICH grand piano? A 9' concert grand or a 5' baby?
Originally Posted by Doug M.
The Casio marketing in the manual states:
Quote
Fulcrum distance from keys:
The position of the fulcrum with respect to the keys
is exactly the same as with a grand piano. This
contributes to stable playing performance, since
the touch is never heavier or lighter depending on
the position at which a finger strikes a key.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The same as with WHICH grand piano? A 9' concert grand or a 5' baby?
Originally Posted by Doug M.
The Casio marketing in the manual states:
Quote
Fulcrum distance from keys:
The position of the fulcrum with respect to the keys
is exactly the same as with a grand piano. This
contributes to stable playing performance, since
the touch is never heavier or lighter depending on
the position at which a finger strikes a key.

I'd say it's the feel more than the length. Every acoustic make is different and each line within that make is different. After a few years of playing, pianos of the same model start to feel different due to how it was played. Would hybrid DP's have that issue? Should this be a new thread or has it already been debated?


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