2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
75 members (Azalingchan, AJB, accordeur, Animisha, anamnesis, apianostudent, Abdol, 20 invisible), 978 guests, and 308 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 5 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,042
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,042
Originally Posted by Hakki
Here is a rating list by Larry Fine. He rates the CF line as Distinguished. But other than name prestige he considers them as equal quality with the Iconic group.

https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/a-map-of-the-market-for-new-pianos-ratings/

As you see C3X and GX3 are in Consumer Grade section (mass produced pianos for a particular price point, as he describes it)
They cannot possibly be equal to the Iconic group because they are not iconic(in the true sense of the word) 😆

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 186
K
kre Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
How does one ensure that the tech they hire is going to be impartial?


Hire a tech that is not employed by the dealer/seller

You can use PTG.org to find a tech in your area.

I feel priviledged to live in country where honesty is still valued. I would find it quite depressing to assume that dealer tech would try to sell me instrument instead of describing technical status of the particular instrument. How sad is that?

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,960
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,960
Originally Posted by kre
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
How does one ensure that the tech they hire is going to be impartial?


Hire a tech that is not employed by the dealer/seller

You can use PTG.org to find a tech in your area.

I feel priviledged to live in country where honesty is still valued. I would find it quite depressing to assume that dealer tech would try to sell me instrument instead of describing technical status of the particular instrument. How sad is that?

when you value honesty and live in a country where honesty is valued, not everyone will have those same values of honesty. I view setting up a situation where you do not test the limits of someone else’s honesty as not being sad—- but being pragmatic. Otherwise, you will occasionally be put in the unnecessary position of being seriously disappointed.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,977
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,977
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by kre
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
How does one ensure that the tech they hire is going to be impartial?


Hire a tech that is not employed by the dealer/seller

You can use PTG.org to find a tech in your area.

I feel priviledged to live in country where honesty is still valued. I would find it quite depressing to assume that dealer tech would try to sell me instrument instead of describing technical status of the particular instrument. How sad is that?

when you value honesty and live in a country where honesty is valued, not everyone will have those same values of honesty. I view setting up a situation where you do not test the limits of someone else’s honesty as not being sad—- but being pragmatic. Otherwise, you will occasionally be put in the unnecessary position of being seriously disappointed.

I feel it’s a mistake to equate honesty with objectivity. If a piano technician does the prep and tuning for a piano dealership, he/she’s evaluated the pianos and prepped them as they see fit. For used pianos sold by a dealer it is advisable to get a 2nd set of trained eyes and ears to inspect the used piano. The 2nd trained tech may see or hear something that the first tech missed. Nothing says you have to get a 2nd opinion but it does provide additional reassurance.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
The reason I’m old and wise is because God protected me when I was young and stupid.
[Linked Image]
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
Would you rather have a brand new out-of-the-box piano or a 2016 floor model you like that is 20% discounted? Both come with a 10-year warranty.
Are there any issues with floor models that would be of concern? Obviously, it's not brand new and has been played by many people. How many hours of usage it has, hard to tell. During the pandemic showrooms were closed so there is that and the seller claims it was opened in 2018.

Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by j&j
I feel it’s a mistake to equate honesty with objectivity. If a piano technician does the prep and tuning for a piano dealership, he/she’s evaluated the pianos and prepped them as they see fit. For used pianos sold by a dealer it is advisable to get a 2nd set of trained eyes and ears to inspect the used piano. The 2nd trained tech may see or hear something that the first tech missed. Nothing says you have to get a 2nd opinion but it does provide additional reassurance.
Yes, good point. Given that I have several choices from techs that are not employed by the seller, why not go with that option, which, if nothing else, increases the likelihood of impartiality?

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,998
A
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,998
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
Would you rather have a brand new out-of-the-box piano or a 2016 floor model you like that is 20% discounted? Both come with a 10-year warranty.
Are there any issues with floor models that would be of concern? Obviously, it's not brand new and has been played by many people. How many hours of usage it has, hard to tell. During the pandemic showrooms were closed so there is that and the seller claims it was opened in 2018.
The floor model would probably be the superior purchase, aside from the date itself making the instrument seem like it would have more "miles" on it. Having been on the floor, this piano would have received a lot of maintenance and tuning which will make it a very stable piano for a long time. New, out-of-the-box pianos take a while to settle down in your home - especially with regard to tuning, but also the way to hammers play in. I'd take a floor model at a discount, definitely. Plus you've actually heard the floor model - that's also preferable to getting a piano that is supposedly identical but possibly (probably?) isn't.

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,407
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,407
Floor model if well prepped and you like it. Unless you’re going to turn around and sell in 5 years.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
Would you rather have a brand new out-of-the-box piano or a 2016 floor model you like that is 20% discounted? Both come with a 10-year warranty.
Are there any issues with floor models that would be of concern? Obviously, it's not brand new and has been played by many people. How many hours of usage it has, hard to tell. During the pandemic showrooms were closed so there is that and the seller claims it was opened in 2018.
The floor model would probably be the superior purchase, aside from the date itself making the instrument seem like it would have more "miles" on it. Having been on the floor, this piano would have received a lot of maintenance and tuning which will make it a very stable piano for a long time. New, out-of-the-box pianos take a while to settle down in your home - especially with regard to tuning, but also the way to hammers play in. I'd take a floor model at a discount, definitely. Plus you've actually heard the floor model - that's also preferable to getting a piano that is supposedly identical but possibly (probably?) isn't.
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Floor model if well prepped and you like it. Unless you’re going to turn around and sell in 5 years.
Thanks.

Well, the GX3 is out because of price, since we like it the same as the C3X, which costs less. I think I can get the seller lower asking price down to $35K Canadian (28K US) including tax, which is $7K cheaper than what the GX3 dealer's bottom line.

So that means, it's down to the CF6 for $52K or the C3X for $35K.

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,407
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,407
That would be a great deal on a C3X, if you can get it. If you like them pretty much the same, use or save the $17k difference.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,718
H
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,718
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
So that means, it's down to the CF6 for $52K or the C3X for $35K.

IMO, C3X is the way to go. The piano has 10 years warranty, you will be the first owners, and you save $17K.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
W
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,025
Which piano would be more suitable for the room? The CF6 in the Yamaha London showroom impressed me as powerful instrument.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
That would be a great deal on a C3X, if you can get it. If you like them pretty much the same, use or save the $17k difference.
Originally Posted by Hakki
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
So that means, it's down to the CF6 for $52K or the C3X for $35K.

IMO, C3X is the way to go. The piano has 10 years warranty, you will be the first owners, and you save $17K.

That's what I'm leaning towards. My daughter liked them almost the same, I liked the CF6 more than she, especially the bass, which was its best feature.

Oh and entering the mix just today (the seller just received a few mid 80s Kawais from Japan) are a Kawai GS-50 and GS-30. We haven't tried them yet but I've heard good things about these older Kawai models and the price would be, likely, less than half of the C3X. Hopefully, we can play them this weekend and make a decision soon.

Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by Withindale
Which piano would be more suitable for the room? The CF6 in the Yamaha London showroom impressed me as powerful instrument.

I think both will be suitable. I'll put it in the living room, which joins the dining room, for a total enclosed area of 35 feet by 13 feet and 8 feet ceiling.

According to one source online, the combined length of a room's walls (assuming that the room's ceiling is 8 feet high) should be at least 10 times the length of a grand. So the combined length of my room's walls are 35x2 + 13x2 = 96 so the 7-foot CF6 should have no issues fitting in.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,718
H
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,718
Quote
Oh and entering the mix just today (the seller just received a few mid 80s Kawais from Japan) are a Kawai GS-50 and GS-30

IMO, this is not a good idea. Japanese pianos have come a long way quality wise since then. I would just discard the offer whatever the price is.

Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
W
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by Hakki
Quote
Oh and entering the mix just today (the seller just received a few mid 80s Kawais from Japan) are a Kawai GS-50 and GS-30

IMO, this is not a good idea. Japanese pianos have come a long way quality wise since then. I would just discard the offer whatever the price is.
I know what you mean, it feels like a step down from the newer models that I've been considering, especially, as you point out, given the advances made since the 1980s.
But I read that the GS were the Shigerus of that time, and were intended for professional pianists and were beautifully made.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,718
H
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,718
I believe Kawai actions from that era were even more heavier than today's MIII actions. Around 65-70 grams maybe.

Your daughter is young and she will probably be playing many more years from now on. I would go with a new piano.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,960
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,960
Originally Posted by Hakki
I believe Kawai actions from that era were even more heavier than today's MIII actions. Around 65-70 grams maybe.

Your daughter is young and she will probably be playing many more years from now on. I would go with a new piano.


She will not be playing many more years regularly at home but during vacations from college.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,407
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,407
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
But I read that the GS were the Shigerus of that time, and were intended for professional pianists and were beautifully made.

The GS series pianos that I’ve played in the last 10 years are no match for the many Shigeru Kawai pianos I’ve played. Don’t believe everything you read. They were supposed to be a step up and had different scale designs (if memory serves) from the KG series of a similar period. There were prototype models that were more similar to the Shigeru, like the RXA. I’ve never heard that label attached to the GS series.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,998
A
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,998
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
But I read that the GS were the Shigerus of that time, and were intended for professional pianists and were beautifully made.

The GS series pianos that I’ve played in the last 10 years are no match for the many Shigeru Kawai pianos I’ve played. Don’t believe everything you read. They were supposed to be a step up and had different scale designs (if memory serves) from the KG series of a similar period. There were prototype models that were more similar to the Shigeru, like the RXA. I’ve never heard that label attached to the GS series.
Correct. The GS series is nothing more than the predecessor to the RX series. They are NOT Shigeru level pianos. Only the very hard to come by RXA model was on a higher tier comparable to the later Shigeru. GS pianos are getting on in years, and are not considered anything remarkable - although a well-maintained example can be perfectly serviceable.

Page 5 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Music theory - Key identification
by Animisha - 07/06/22 11:21 AM
Yamaha P-125 String Resonance
by Petzold - 07/06/22 09:50 AM
Piano saver system? does everyone use this?
by NJ_Piano_Mom - 07/06/22 09:00 AM
Future-proof-ness of a silent acoustic grand
by Falsch - 07/06/22 08:03 AM
Haessler
by PianistEsq - 07/06/22 12:05 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics213,828
Posts3,205,844
Members105,735
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5