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Originally Posted by j&j
I guess things have changed but it was my mother that selected the piano she liked/loved. If I wanted to learn to play, I’d practice quietly on her piano, while she listened. Which meant no Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin. I was free to buy my own piano whenever I moved out. smile
Was your mother an accomplished pianist?

My daughter is much better than me at this time (I do plan to catch up with but it will take years, if ever) and plays a lot more than me so why not let her choose the piano she likes the best. I, of course, have veto power and final say in the matter.

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Originally Posted by cygnusdei
Quote
Most piano enthusiasts recognize a difference in tone between the two. Yamaha is known for their rich, bright, clear sound which makes it the favorite of many modern or rock/pop musicians. Kawai is generally regarded as having a warmer tone, often preferred by classical pianists.
Yes, that is what I read about too and was surprised to discover that the difference between C3X and GX3, in terms of sound, was negligible. Now, keep in mind that we did not try them side by side and the auditions were a week apart so we had to go by memory on what the GX3 sounded like but I do remember distinctly thinking that the C3X was mellow and not bright at all.

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There is certainly more to life than pianos, and it seems that you and your daughter are not enthralled with the CF6. I would also consider what you would do with the extra money if you bought the C3X. From you and your daughter’s perspective, the price difference could mean a lovely vacation or two (if/when COVID permits), or it could be a significant chunk of college tuition, or some major renovations to your house, etc. I guess I would try to weigh the value to you of the CF6 vs the C3X as compared with the value to you of whatever you would purchase with the money saved buying the C3X. This might answer the question of whether the price difference is worth it to you.

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I would consider the CF6 in the same category with Steinway B, Bosendorfer 214, Shigeru Kawai SK6.

My comparative rating of the Yamaha line would be different from your daughter’s.

CFX 10
CF6 9
CF4 8
S3X 7
C3X 6

Last edited by Hakki; 08/31/21 11:17 PM. Reason: Typo
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Originally Posted by Hakki
I would consider the CF6 in the same category with Steinway B, Bosendorfer 214, Shigeru Kawai SK6.

My comparative rating of the Yamaha line would be different from your daughter’s.

CFX 10
CF6 9
CF4 8
S3X 7
C3X 6
Yes but Hakki she is not referring to lines of pianos but specifically the pianos she is playing right in front of her. I know I have played that were considered high end that did not sound particularly great. I’ve had a technician who worked at Steinway hall in NY who told me he would rather have my old RX-2 over some of the Steinways he had been maintaining for customers over several years. No two pianos are alike especially as one starts looking “high end” models.

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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
Originally Posted by BlakeOR
It greatly depends on the individual CF6 and Bosendorfer. I played a brand new Bosie in the store listed at 120k, and it was just alright. Nothing special. Strongly preferred the Schimmel Konzert next to it.

I would partially agree with you though. I think OP should look at hand made instruments from all brands, because if he's willing to spring for a new C3x at 35k or so, he has a lot of other options.

Sounds like they don't like that particular CF6 though, so they should eliminate it, regardless of our opinion on the 'qualifications' of the player. The fact that the CF6 is better on paper than the C3x is meaningless, for all we know that one is a lemon.
It's not that we don't like the CF6. We do but we (well, my daughter particularly) don't like it that much more. It's the best piano we've tried so far but is the difference worth the extra money?

If we decide to get it, I'll hire an independent tech to make sure there is nothing wrong with it. Funny, the seller suggested that he recommend a tech because of his ostensible concern that I might not a good one. LOL.

What other options do you consider good in the 35K-40K range?

It's not something you want to rationalize IMO. If you're going to go high end, you should be in love with it. Otherwise, it makes sense to go with the tried and true, new C3x/Gx3.

Oh, I'd look at anything used listed for 45k or below, and anything new with MSRP/SMP at 50-60k or below. If nothing else, it lets your daughter play with a bunch of different pianos. Have fun with it! Don't be afraid to play some smaller ones too, maybe she plays a 5'8" model of something that has some particular charm and a great action, etc etc.

At the end of the day, you need to find a well made piano that has some characteristic that you bond with, the actual specs are less important once you're into the high quality tier - it makes zero difference to you how Yamaha makes the CF line if you like a used USA-made Baldwin in great shape better than it, right?

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Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by Hakki
I would consider the CF6 in the same category with Steinway B, Bosendorfer 214, Shigeru Kawai SK6.

My comparative rating of the Yamaha line would be different from your daughter’s.

CFX 10
CF6 9
CF4 8
S3X 7
C3X 6
Yes but Hakki she is not referring to lines of pianos but specifically the pianos she is playing right in front of her. I know I have played that were considered high end that did not sound particularly great. I’ve had a technician who worked at Steinway hall in NY who told me he would rather have my old RX-2 over some of the Steinways he had been maintaining for customers over several years. No two pianos are alike especially as one starts looking “high end” models.
Yes, pianos can vary individually a lot, I've witnessed this myself first hand.

Now, I may have given the wrong impression. It's not that we don't like the CF6, it's that it didn't blow the C3X out of the water, except, for me, in the bass. It is a beautiful sounding piano all-around. I didn't see such a big difference between them as Hakki's rating. Maybe if played side by side? Also, interestingly, we did not like a C2X nearly as much as the C3X. They were side by side and we played them both. The touch of the C3X felt better and the sound was fuller.

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Originally Posted by BlakeOR
It's not something you want to rationalize IMO. If you're going to go high end, you should be in love with it. Otherwise, it makes sense to go with the tried and true, new C3x/Gx3.

Oh, I'd look at anything used listed for 45k or below, and anything new with MSRP/SMP at 50-60k or below. If nothing else, it lets your daughter play with a bunch of different pianos. Have fun with it! Don't be afraid to play some smaller ones too, maybe she plays a 5'8" model of something that has some particular charm and a great action, etc etc.

At the end of the day, you need to find a well made piano that has some characteristic that you bond with, the actual specs are less important once you're into the high quality tier - it makes zero difference to you how Yamaha makes the CF line if you like a used USA-made Baldwin in great shape better than it, right?

Is there such a thing as love at first sight with a piano? Or first audition? Maybe you learn to appreciate the finer things a piano does only after playing it for hours and hours. My daughter's played the CF6 for maybe an hour in total.

Interestingly, you mentioned a Baldwin and there was a mid 90s 6'3 Baldwin in the same room as the CF6. I really wanted my daughter to like it as it is reasonably priced but she was adamant that she did not like the feel. Something about the action did not feel right with her. She seems to be picky about the action. There was an RX-2 in the same room and again, she did not like the action of it, said it was too heavy. Kawai is known for their heavier action, although it seems they've gone lighter in their newer models: the GX3 we tried had noticeably lighter action than the RX.

Last edited by WinstonSmith; 09/01/21 01:02 AM.
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Originally Posted by Sgisela
There is certainly more to life than pianos, and it seems that you and your daughter are not enthralled with the CF6. I would also consider what you would do with the extra money if you bought the C3X. From you and your daughter’s perspective, the price difference could mean a lovely vacation or two (if/when COVID permits), or it could be a significant chunk of college tuition, or some major renovations to your house, etc. I guess I would try to weigh the value to you of the CF6 vs the C3X as compared with the value to you of whatever you would purchase with the money saved buying the C3X. This might answer the question of whether the price difference is worth it to you.
Exactly my thoughts too. The one thing that I keep going back to is that the CF6 seems to be the best deal by far even if it's the most expensive and it certainly is the piano we liked the best, even if it wasn't head and shoulders above cheaper options. I also wonder if it's perception as well. Hakki says that he considers the CF6 in the same category as Steinway B and Bosendorfer 214 and I wonder if I wouldn't have already bought a piano if my choice was either of those models instead of the CF6.

Last edited by WinstonSmith; 09/01/21 01:10 AM.
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Here is a rating list by Larry Fine. He rates the CF line as Distinguished. But other than name prestige he considers them as equal quality with the Iconic group.

https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/a-map-of-the-market-for-new-pianos-ratings/

As you see C3X and GX3 are in Consumer Grade section (mass produced pianos for a particular price point, as he describes it)

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Sweet jesus not Larry Fine rating list again.

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I thought the fact that CF6's are handcrafted said that these are individual instruments that should evaluated on a case-by-case basis. That is, in contrast to mass produced pianos that are supposed to be of uniform quality (e.g. Pearl River's ISO 9001 certification)


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Originally Posted by cygnusdei
these are individual instruments that should evaluated on a case-by-case basis. That is, in contrast to mass produced pianos that are supposed to be of uniform quality (e.g. Pearl River's ISO 9001 certification)

The first part of this.
Even true for the ISO 9001 certified makers.


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GX3 costs more than C3X? Is that right?

Last edited by noyes; 09/01/21 02:38 PM.
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How does one ensure that the tech they hire is going to be impartial?

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Originally Posted by noyes
GX3 costs more than C3X? Is that right?
Yes, about $2K more. The GX3 is a 2020 model, the C3X is a 2016 model.

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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
How does one ensure that the tech they hire is going to be impartial?


Hire a tech that is not employed by the dealer/seller

You can use PTG.org to find a tech in your area.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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https://pianoteachersconnect.com/toronto-piano-tuners

Google search, and ask if they are impartial about that CF6?

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I was wondering about the GX3 costing more than the CX3 as that is not usually the case.


David



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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by WinstonSmith
How does one ensure that the tech they hire is going to be impartial?


Hire a tech that is not employed by the dealer/seller

You can use PTG.org to find a tech in your area.
Originally Posted by Hakki
https://pianoteachersconnect.com/toronto-piano-tuners

Google search, and ask if they are impartial about that CF6?
Much obliged.

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