2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
93 members (benQF, anotherscott, 36251, ambrozy, Bob Husband, Animisha, 1903wrightflyer, AlphaTerminus, 16 invisible), 824 guests, and 665 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,592
Serge88 Offline OP
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,592
I resume my piano lesson tomorrow and last semester my teacher suggested I learn Bach two parts invention. Which one do you suggest ? There is 24 to choose from and number 1 is in C major but major or minor keys I don't care. My level is intermediate. I usually struggle with fast tempo but I can play slower.



“To send light into the darkness of men’s hearts - such is the duty of the artist.”
- Robert Schumann

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,450
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,450
If you haven't done any then no. 1 in C major is the usual "first" one. It's a good one to start with because the interplay between the voices is easy to hear and technically it's one of the easiest.

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 414
J
Full Member
Online Embarrased
Full Member
J
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 414
There are 15 Inventions...BWV 772-786. I'm intermediate and I find them all challenging! I'd check out #1, 8, or 13. They are pretty straightforward, with easy key signatures...and #1 is the only one of those 3 with ornaments, although you can always leave those out until you're ready.

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,052
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,052
I like #8 in F. 1 flat in the key signature isn’t a big deal…

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,450
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,450
I don't know what you are looking at; there are only 15 Two-Part Inventions, and 15 Three-Part Inventions.

In the RCM (Toronto) syllabus, the first ones to appear - suggesting easiest of difficulty - are:

Level 7:
- No. 1 in C major
- No. 4 in D minor
- No. 8 in F major

Level 8:
- the remaining 12.

However, the choice should be up to you and your teacher, shouldn't it? Since all but the three easier ones are considered the same level of difficulty, try them out and decide.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,450
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,450
Furthermore:

If brisk tempi are not your strength, these don't have to be practiced at full tempo. Any or all of them can be practiced slowly while working towards a performance tempo and as such they are good exercises for developing independence of hands.

What is critical is that they be played precisely and evenly.


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,271
K
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,271
My teacher at the beginning of the year suggested a Bach 2 part invention which I delayed for a few months, but finally bit the bullet. Since I had one in a book at level 5 that I'd learnt other pieces from I gave it a go. But I was wrong to do so, it was too much of a stretch piece. I spent way too long on it and achieved only a mediocre result. Still too slow, I have your problem Serge88 of being slow. It was number 4 of the two part Inventions. I think I got the first half sounding quite musical even though too slow, but the second half is harder, all the notes are played in the right order in my recording but the musicality fades.

I must say though by the end the I did like the sound of the first half and that by itself felt like an achievement, because I really disliked it for ages.

Last edited by KevinM; 08/31/21 05:18 PM.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,366
S
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,366
One that is not too fast is the number 7 but it has other challenges. Otherwise you can start with the 1. It is not easy but rather straightforward.

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,094
M
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,094
Bruce the UK system has more of a range in grades for these than RCM.

Bach invention 1 - grade 4.
Bach invention 12 - grade 7.

(There are only 8 grades)

I agree completely it is related to the speed you play them. I spent quite a bit of time learning Bach inventions but really only two in more depth with my teacher.

I think they are very useful to learn. I may disagree with the other suggestions as I don't think you have to start with the easiest. I think number 6 is quite an interesting one but personally I started with 13.

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,094
M
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,094
Originally Posted by Sidokar
One that is not too fast is the number 7 but it has other challenges. Otherwise you can start with the 1. It is not easy but rather straightforward.

That was very funny. Easy doesn't mean the same as rather straight forward? It made me laugh smile It was graded at 4 so I think number 1 is the most doable. I just think it's a horrendous piece so wouldn't have been my choice. Number 7 is another excellent one also. I think Bach taught them in a certain order so I have heard some people learn all of these in this order. I spent really ages of Bach invention so would be interesting to hear what others have done. I suspect many have only done a couple of them.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,450
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,450
Yes, Bach wrote them in a certain order which some people think is the intended pedagogical order. The order is:

C, d, e, F, g, a, b, Bb, A, G, f, E, Eb, D, c

In other words, going up the scale and then back down. The first 3 are based on scale patterns, the next 3 are based on arpeggios, and the remaining ones have more complex themes.

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,123
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,123
I found No. 8 (in F major) to be a suitable and enjoyable challenge.
After that I wanted to play another one, and my teacher left it up to me to pick, and I chose No 15 because I like it. The jump in difficulty was ...well, a lot! I almost gave up a couple times, but I'm still plugging away at it. I wasn't going to play the ornaments at all, but I broke a couple bones in my right hand, and decided it would give Lefty something to work on for a few weeks. I'm not sure this will result in mastery, but, if you know me, you know that's not my MO anyway.

Last edited by malkin; 08/31/21 06:01 PM.

Learner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,592
Serge88 Offline OP
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,592
Yes there is 15 Two Parts Invention, I was reading that there is one for every key, so I thought 24 inventions with major and minor. I looked at the past ABF recitals and the most popular is No. 8 and No. 1. I might choose no.8, I can't wait to try it because I never play a piece where the melody is in the left and right hand. I think it's call counterpoint.



“To send light into the darkness of men’s hearts - such is the duty of the artist.”
- Robert Schumann

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,592
Serge88 Offline OP
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,592
My teacher only learned one Invention and moved to Bach Prelude and Fugue, she said, these are the real challenge.



“To send light into the darkness of men’s hearts - such is the duty of the artist.”
- Robert Schumann

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,366
S
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,366
Originally Posted by Moo :)
Originally Posted by Sidokar
One that is not too fast is the number 7 but it has other challenges. Otherwise you can start with the 1. It is not easy but rather straightforward.

That was very funny. Easy doesn't mean the same as rather straight forward? It made me laugh smile It was graded at 4 so I think number 1 is the most doable. I just think it's a horrendous piece so wouldn't have been my choice. Number 7 is another excellent one also. I think Bach taught them in a certain order so I have heard some people learn all of these in this order. I spent really ages of Bach invention so would be interesting to hear what others have done. I suspect many have only done a couple of them.

Yes, even though often times, it is said that N1 is the easiest, I dont think it is the case. The difficult order is indeed not aligned with the numbering. When I said straightforward, I meant that by some aspects it is a no fuss type of piece. The structure is rather simple, and it is clear where it is going. There are not too many ornaments and you can play at a relatively moderate tempo. But on the other hand there is quite some interaction between the 2 hands !

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,592
Serge88 Offline OP
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,592
I chose No. 8. It's fun to learn but I prefer the Invention at medium tempo because I like to hum the melody and at fast tempo it's impossible.



“To send light into the darkness of men’s hearts - such is the duty of the artist.”
- Robert Schumann

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 9
T
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
T
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 9
I'll chip in since i'm in the process of completing all 15 two part inventions. I find the first one in C major to be the most approachable as it is at a rather moderate tempo (60-70 ish on the metronome per quarter note) and the two part texture are not too complex yet, the hands "take turns" more often as opposed to playing alongside each other. Where in later inventions, theres is way more focus on the two voices playing against each other, which will require much more control and coordination.

Other commenters have also suggested number 8 which is a valid option! However tempo may be a slight issue for some people as it will require a fair bit of dexterity to play, with a desirable intermediate player's tempo anywhere between 90-105 per quarter beat. But you can choose to learn it at a lower tempo if you enjoy it! Either way, you get the benefits of the two part contrapuntal textures smile

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,592
Serge88 Offline OP
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,592
thumb



“To send light into the darkness of men’s hearts - such is the duty of the artist.”
- Robert Schumann


Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
Selling Hammond D100 (think B3) Organ & Leslie HL722!
---------------------
Our Fall 2021 Free Newsletter is Out , see it here!
---------------------
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yundi Li arrested
by Sidokar - 10/26/21 05:36 AM
A thought experiment
by cygnusdei - 10/26/21 03:58 AM
Modern U where is the sample folder located?
by MooganDavid - 10/25/21 11:33 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics209,749
Posts3,142,129
Members103,118
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5