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Originally Posted by drewr
i am still interested in understanding some specifics when a given DP user sends their keystrokes via traditional midi to a computer-DAW/VST ; specifically with regard to the return path to DP.
No return path is required. You almost always *can* send MIDI back to the keyboard (whether over a 5-pin connection or USB, depending on the capabilities of the keyboard), but there is often no need to. You often *can* send audio back to the keyboard (whether over an analog connection or USB, depending on the capabilities of the keyboard), but there is often no need to.

Originally Posted by drewr
n previous thread discussion it seems that once a VST does its thing to the incoming MIDI stream, it cannot send the result back to DP as midi but only as an Audio stream which obviously would need to connect to DP via line-in or other non-midi interface.
Right. VSTs, by definition, output audio. VSTs don't output MIDI. However the DAW (or other application) that is hosting the VST can probably output MIDI.

Originally Posted by drewr
Bruce’s post indicates there may be circumstances when some device be it other controller or a computer - perhaps limited to a DAW operations and not VST - can send the result back to DP as midi data over a true midi or USB midi connection.
It's hardly a rare thing. DAWs and assorted other apps are used to output MIDI all the time.

Just don't confuse audio and MIDI. Audio is something you can hear. MIDI is a set of instructions that tells a device what to do. There is no overlap between these functionalities. You cannot send audio via MIDI. You cannot send MIDI instructions via audio.

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Originally Posted by sgriff96
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Right, the Dexibell can directly connect to a keyboard that has only a USB connection for MIDI (no 5-pin connections). It's a nice feature, most hardware sound sources (modules/keyboards) haven't been able to do that.
That's a super cool feature. I'm assuming the S7 Pro has this feature too, but not totally sure. They seem to list these same specs for MIDI-to-host.
"To host" is what most boards have. But the Dexibells also have the ability to function AS a host, something relatively few boards have. Yamaha Montage/MODX, Kurzweil PC4/K2700, and Korg Kronos/Nautilus and current PA series arrangers are the ones I'm aware of, and the V3 and Gemini sound modules, IIRC.

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Gotchya makes sense. Thank you! I think I will order the Dexibell to try it, and return it if need be. Most other pianos are out of stock at the moment anyways, so I have few options. If it doesn't work out I'll likely just pick up a P515 (or maybe MP7SE) later and eventually get a Dexibell SX7.

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I received the Dexibell and here are my initial first day impressions:

Action is fine. It's nothing to write home about but not really a problem when playing either. I could live with it I suppose. Sound is okay. Listening to the demos sounded much better (maybe just because Ralf is light years better at piano than me). The pianos (other than the pop related ones) sound very muddied and muffled in the low end (with or without damper pedal) through my headphones (HD6XX). I'm missing the right cable to run the audio through my audio interface to my monitors at the moment. Not really thrilled with it at the moment since the sounds were the reason I wanted it. I will likely be returning it but plan to of course keep working with it for a couple weeks first. All the other pianos I want to try are out of stock anyways so I don't have a ton of options.

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Also considering the fact that I don't believe I'll be able to set up my piano to play it while sitting in the right spot between my studio monitors, I think a normal digital piano with speakers and not a "stage" piano might be a better option. Now reconsidering the usual suspects- Kawai ES920, FP90x, P515.

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Originally Posted by sgriff96
I received the Dexibell and here are my initial first day impressions:

Action is fine. It's nothing to write home about but not really a problem when playing either. I could live with it I suppose. Sound is okay. Listening to the demos sounded much better (maybe just because Ralf is light years better at piano than me). The pianos (other than the pop related ones) sound very muddied and muffled in the low end (with or without damper pedal) through my headphones (HD6XX). I'm missing the right cable to run the audio through my audio interface to my monitors at the moment. Not really thrilled with it at the moment since the sounds were the reason I wanted it. I will likely be returning it but plan to of course keep working with it for a couple weeks first. All the other pianos I want to try are out of stock anyways so I don't have a ton of options.

Did you put the German or Japan PLT on it?

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Originally Posted by emenelton
Originally Posted by sgriff96
I received the Dexibell and here are my initial first day impressions:

Action is fine. It's nothing to write home about but not really a problem when playing either. I could live with it I suppose. Sound is okay. Listening to the demos sounded much better (maybe just because Ralf is light years better at piano than me). The pianos (other than the pop related ones) sound very muddied and muffled in the low end (with or without damper pedal) through my headphones (HD6XX). I'm missing the right cable to run the audio through my audio interface to my monitors at the moment. Not really thrilled with it at the moment since the sounds were the reason I wanted it. I will likely be returning it but plan to of course keep working with it for a couple weeks first. All the other pianos I want to try are out of stock anyways so I don't have a ton of options.

Did you put the German or Japan PLT on it?
I am about to try the German PLT because I remembered you recommending it. I tried USA PLT. The main problem is the whole point is to have all of those Dexibell sounds but you have to remove a lot of them from the memory to load up the platinum sounds. If one of the PLT sounds really blows me away I could see it being worth it but otherwise I don't because I wanted all of those sounds available. I wish there was a way to upgrade the memory to more than 1.5GB.

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The PLT sounds are really big. So unlike the rest of the sounds, they are not there for instantly available variety, but so a choice for your "best" piano sound. Arguably, it only needs to have ONE piano sound you like better than anything in the competitive Yamaha, Kawai, Roland, whatever, to make it the better piano. Heck, even a real Steinway has only one piano sound. ;-) So I'd say try all the PLTs, and keep the one you like best. Use non-platinum for your occasional "alternate" piano sounds if need be.

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
The PLT sounds are really big. So unlike the rest of the sounds, they are not there for instantly available variety, but so a choice for your "best" piano sound. Arguably, it only needs to have ONE piano sound you like better than anything in the competitive Yamaha, Kawai, Roland, whatever, to make it the better piano. Heck, even a real Steinway has only one piano sound. ;-) So I'd say try all the PLTs, and keep the one you like best. Use non-platinum for your occasional "alternate" piano sounds if need be.
Thanks I will definitely try them all and play around and see if there's something that works for me.

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Okay, so I plugged my Roland into the Dexibell to control. It really highlights how much the key action is killing it for me with the Dexibell. Everything feels significantly better to me. That being said, I don't think I like the sounds enough still to justify the SX7. If it were more around ~$700-800 then maybe, but since I'm not a professional stage performer I just don't want to spend $1300 on sounds that I think are pretty good.

So that being said, I will return this (in a week or so) and continue my search I think.

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Which Dexibell did you get, the S7 Pro?

If you're not thrilled with any of the PLT pianos even when played from an action you love, then yeah, even the SX7 isn't a solution.

So... Kawai?

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Which Dexibell did you get, the S7 Pro?

If you're not thrilled with any of the PLT pianos even when played from an action you love, then yeah, even the SX7 isn't a solution.

So... Kawai?
Yea the S7 Pro. I think the German is definitely the best and it's pretty damn good, but not worth the SX7 to me when if I really want a good sound I can get a better one with one of my VSTs. Like I said, if this was for stage for me (as it's intended) it would be an excellent option I think. Yes I think I'm going to try a Kawai. Either an MP7SE or ES920, not sure. I'm having issues with my line out -> audio interface -> monitors being low quality so that's souring me towards a stage piano even though that isn't the Dexibells fault.

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Can anyone comment on which brands generally have very good e. piano sounds? That is something I would like as I don't like the FP30 e. piano sounds. Does the FP90X improve on these and give more options with PureAcoustic?

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Originally Posted by sgriff96
Can anyone comment on which brands generally have very good e. piano sounds? That is something I would like as I don't like the FP30 e. piano sounds. Does the FP90X improve on these and give more options with PureAcoustic?

Wondering if you tried the:

EXP 70s EP PLT

by Dexibell

I know you're not planning on keeping it but it is a benchmark type sound quality wise.

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I thought even the non-PLT downloadable EP sounds for the Dexibell were quite good (though the stock ones that came in the board were not... the downloads were definitely better). I didn't like Dexibell's EPs until they came out with these.

I think Korg has really nice EPs in their EP-1 based models (Kronos, Nautilus, Grandstage, and Vox Continental, with that last one having the edge because of the built-in tube), and also in their SV1/SV2.

Kawai MP7/MP7SE are strong for EP, and I assume the MP11/MP11SE is as well tyhough I haven't played them.

In a more budget range, Casio PX-5S and PX-560 EPs are quite good, especially with their free optionally downloadable ones.

I was never much of a fan of Yamaha for EPs, though the CP88/CP73 and YC88/YC73 have changed my mind there.

Kurzweil has some nice EPs, including some reasonably priced additions from Purgatory Creek which you can get for the PC4-and-up models.

I haven't heard any Roland EPs I've really liked, though I have not played the RD2000 or Fantom.

Nord got a bit better with some recent enhancements, but they're still not among my favorite EPs.

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Originally Posted by emenelton
Originally Posted by sgriff96
Can anyone comment on which brands generally have very good e. piano sounds? That is something I would like as I don't like the FP30 e. piano sounds. Does the FP90X improve on these and give more options with PureAcoustic?

Wondering if you tried the:

EXP 70s EP PLT

by Dexibell

I know you're not planning on keeping it but it is a benchmark type sound quality wise.
I did and it's quite excellent. I've been having a lot of fun playing with that one.

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Originally Posted by sgriff96
Originally Posted by emenelton
Originally Posted by sgriff96
Can anyone comment on which brands generally have very good e. piano sounds? That is something I would like as I don't like the FP30 e. piano sounds. Does the FP90X improve on these and give more options with PureAcoustic?

Wondering if you tried the:

EXP 70s EP PLT

by Dexibell

I know you're not planning on keeping it but it is a benchmark type sound quality wise.
I did and it's quite excellent. I've been having a lot of fun playing with that one.

Nothing really sounds like that and the -German PLT- from the other makers.

For some players the acoustic piano is what decisions are made on, other things are VST’s. For you wanting a board that has the built in sounds to do arrangements with, at the end of the day, none of them will replace VST’s.

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