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There may or may not be some cheesiness or a bit too romantic of playing for some of your taste in here, I don't think this is my best polished performance. There can be a bit better of a structure, more accurate dynamics, and WAY better pedalling.... But, if there is any other stuff that I missed or suggestions that I can get I would appreciate it..


Best,


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The playing is very good. I do hear some unevenness in the tempo probably intentional slowing down or speeding up. Interesting modern ending.

When it comes to the sustain pedal, some places near the beginning feel a bit overused. Some people would use very little pedaling at the beginning of each phrase or none at all. Holding the first 2 notes of a chord arpeggio is the technique of finger pedaling meaning using the finger to sustain notes instead of the sustain pedal. When you have notes that are already sustained, putting extra sustain with your foot would make the notes in a phrase sound too muddy.

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Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
The playing is very good. I do hear some unevenness in the tempo probably intentional slowing down or speeding up. Interesting modern ending.

When it comes to the sustain pedal, some places near the beginning feel a bit overused. Some people would use very little pedaling at the beginning of each phrase or none at all. Holding the first 2 notes of a chord arpeggio is the technique of finger pedaling meaning using the finger to sustain notes instead of the sustain pedal. When you have notes that are already sustained, putting extra sustain with your foot would make the notes in a phrase sound too muddy.


In a Cortot book on interpretation he recommends you pedal for each quaver, I don't know what a quaver is to be honest. I think I pedal at the beginning of each CE so like (PEDAL) CE + GCE (PEDAL) CE + GCE.. Or maybe after each C+E combo, I don't like playing this piece with no pedal. I can do it, and I understand that it fits well within the actual context of prelude and fugue. It's the proper way to play in composers intention, but, it sounds boring. If I played the whole book of WTC or something, I would play prelude in C with no pedal to go into the fugue. But, if you're playing it just by itself I recommend no pedal...

I will keep in mind that pedal timing so I don't get muddy stuff.


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I feel that a steady rhythm is the heart of this piece. I prefer interpretations with a very steady rhythm and smooth dynamics.

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Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
I feel that a steady rhythm is the heart of this piece. I prefer interpretations with a very steady rhythm and smooth dynamics.
I can try interpreting like that, it's not too hard, if I really wanted I could go slow and count it. Or if I want to be a cheater use metronome, but, I don't really like playing super steady smooth and even. My fav pianists are Cortot and Horowitz, so I try to maybe play like them a bit. I don't know how they would play this piece though.

This is basically my own individual interpretation based off story or strucutre I would try to tell from song, the structure of story is not PERFECT yet but it's like 90% complete.

Last edited by pablobear; 08/28/21 01:40 AM.

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Originally Posted by pablobear
[...] My fav pianists are Cortot and Horowitz, so I try to maybe play like them a bit. I don't know how they would play this piece though.

[...]

There's the point: You don't know how Horowitz or Cortot may have played this Prelude. And the keyboard music of Bach is a far cry from what either of them is primarily known for.

You may like your highly irregular (erratic) tempi throughout this piece, but it certainly doesn't sound anything like what most professionals (nor Bach specialists) would do with this. It doesn't have to be metronomic, but it should have a very steady pace which your performance does not.

Regards,


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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by pablobear
[...] My fav pianists are Cortot and Horowitz, so I try to maybe play like them a bit. I don't know how they would play this piece though.

[...]

There's the point: You don't know how Horowitz or Cortot may have played this Prelude. And the keyboard music of Bach is a far cry from what either of them is primarily known for.

You may like your highly irregular (erratic) tempi throughout this piece, but it certainly doesn't sound anything like what most professionals (nor Bach specialists) would do with this. It doesn't have to be metronomic, but it should have a very steady pace which your performance does not.

Regards,

Should I try to just listen to Richter or another player and copy them then? I can do that if I try enough, but, what if I make the irregular rhythms embedded in the structure? E.g. I slow down a bit on a climax, or i slow down a bit during two parts that are structurally similar...


I can start doing the steady pace and focus on that in my future interpretations, i wouldn't mind it for the piece... But, it's a littl efun... Maybe I will do the richter special, I've heard richter will be so rhythmically precise and accurate when he does take a liberty or do a change it will be apparent and make sense and always add to the music.. Maybe I will do that... Like 95% pure 5% liberties or something, I don't know what my current percentage is now though to see how much I'd want to scale it back.

Best


edit: also watching it back again and looking at it, I've noticed that there are times where I don't intentionally want to change my rhythm and I do in this performance. I think the more I attempt it I can get something that would fit.

Last edited by pablobear; 08/28/21 01:55 AM.

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Originally Posted by pablobear
edit: also watching it back again and looking at it, I've noticed that there are times where I don't intentionally want to change my rhythm and I do in this performance. I think the more I attempt it I can get something that would fit.
To me this shows that you're not really in control of your tempo and that this is not simply an interpretational choice.

No one plays this piece perfectly metronomically. It has to breathe so to speak, but you are WAY overdoing it and that simply doesn't sound any good. I would suggest that you indeed try to copy a conservative interpretation of this piece first, get used to playing it like that for a long time, and only then try to experiment with your own interpretation choices.

Some other remarks:
- Your dynamics are actually pretty good.
- At the beginning your wrists are way too high.
- The last two bars (of the actual piece) sound like you're accenting every note. That completely ruins the mood and the flow of this piece.
- What you did there at the end doesn't fit the mood of this piece at all.

Do you have a teacher?

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I will not repeat what others have said. You have a good control of the piece. Your wrist are too high and your hands are still too tense.

You dont need to use any pedal, just holding the notes with the fingers will do. Cortot belongs to an old school. But the pedal is possible as long as it is not overused.

Quaver, i guess you could easily find what it means.

The main issue with your interpretation is that you do not understand how to make the piece interesting. By going to sudden changes of tempo, some being so slow as to be painfull, you actually break the continuity and the consistency of the piece. The result is just what seems like a set of erratic up and down. There are a number of issues with the articulation which is not at the right place or absent. So it is not that i would mind some innovation going outside conventional usage, but as is, you have ruined the piece. You need to learn how to play a piece end to end. None of the pianists you mentionned has ever done anything remotely close to your version.

Here is a romantic version :



And a more modern version,


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Nice tone control and not rushed so very pleasant listening.

You come in like gang-busters in a couple of spots. Some contrast may be nice, but felt too strong. Don't recall the markings in the score, but in listening there are never huge contrasts. Just be careful for that.

Your tempo needs to come up and no or hardly any rubato. Sorry, doesn't belong in this one. Neither does the Liberace ending, but I like your thinking.

Nice playing.

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Originally Posted by pablobear
[...]
Should I try to just listen to Richter or another player and copy them then? [...]

It's not a question of listening and copying. Listen carefully to get an idea of how professionals perform this piece so that you understand the questions of rhythms, dynamics, and articulation as they relate to this Prelude.

Regards,


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Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Originally Posted by pablobear
edit: also watching it back again and looking at it, I've noticed that there are times where I don't intentionally want to change my rhythm and I do in this performance. I think the more I attempt it I can get something that would fit.
To me this shows that you're not really in control of your tempo and that this is not simply an interpretational choice.

No one plays this piece perfectly metronomically. It has to breathe so to speak, but you are WAY overdoing it and that simply doesn't sound any good. I would suggest that you indeed try to copy a conservative interpretation of this piece first, get used to playing it like that for a long time, and only then try to experiment with your own interpretation choices.

Some other remarks:
- Your dynamics are actually pretty good.
- At the beginning your wrists are way too high.
- The last two bars (of the actual piece) sound like you're accenting every note. That completely ruins the mood and the flow of this piece.
- What you did there at the end doesn't fit the mood of this piece at all.

Do you have a teacher?

Going to fix wrist problem, I understand it. The logic behind it is I feel like the more I keep my wrist in motion I get more bloodflow going through it and flexibility so I don't get as tense, I understand the proper hand position though. Will keep in mind
The END END like after I HIT THE C OCTAVE + EGC is the end. I JUST do the random like scales and other [censored] after just because I'm a spastic, it wasn't part of the ending, I could cut that out of the recording. It was not meant to be viewed as an ending lol, this is prelude in c by bach. I like ending it pure on the OCTAVE AND C CHORD.

I have a teacher at college, we start our first lesson this week. Then over summer I have a very good teacher, we've only done like 3-4 lessons. But, she actually forced me to get a foundation and it's paid off so much...


Thank you for the advice, and I will try to play this with more even rhyhtm and more pure... It's not too hard I believe, I think it's just boring xD. But, I will try so I can make my playing good and then like when I want to hvae fun it will sound better.


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Originally Posted by Greener
Nice tone control and not rushed so very pleasant listening.

You come in like gang-busters in a couple of spots. Some contrast may be nice, but felt too strong. Don't recall the markings in the score, but in listening there are never huge contrasts. Just be careful for that.

Your tempo needs to come up and no or hardly any rubato. Sorry, doesn't belong in this one. Neither does the Liberace ending, but I like your thinking.

Nice playing.


Yeah, I try to add damper pedal + bang for those certain spots. It is the spots I tend to consider important moments in the I guess piece, like the climax and then it goes back home to C,E GCE.

The liberace ending wasn't an ending, the actual ending was when I hit the C+C and CEG the other [censored] I just left in on accident... I should cut the video, because, I do not want people to think that's how I end the piece. I do an ornament usually, and I don't break the last chords... Maybe I can add an E to my octave on left hand?? and just do GC that would be cool too maybe..


From now on, I'm going to maybe only use rubato on the G+F on LH and GBD on right hand on the second triplet. Because, right after that it goes back home, and I consider that harmony one of the best and biggest climax... Today, I may repost today depending if I can instantly polish this to a good tempo. Of playing it pure 95%, also listening more to richter and other pianists play it and then add rubato where I find it to be tastefull...

I'm understanding on WHY this piece should be pure, and I will change it and play it the proper way... I just like to have fun on the piano, when I become as good as horowitz, maybe then I can be as much of a moron as I am now wink...

Best


My gods are: Cortot, Horowitz, and Sofronitsky,

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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by pablobear
[...]
Should I try to just listen to Richter or another player and copy them then? [...]

It's not a question of listening and copying. Listen carefully to get an idea of how professionals perform this piece so that you understand the questions of rhythms, dynamics, and articulation as they relate to this Prelude.

Regards,

Thank you for your help Bruce, you leave your comments short and to the point. They are very helpful for me...

Best


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Originally Posted by pablobear
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by pablobear
[...] My fav pianists are Cortot and Horowitz, so I try to maybe play like them a bit. I don't know how they would play this piece though.

[...]

There's the point: You don't know how Horowitz or Cortot may have played this Prelude. And the keyboard music of Bach is a far cry from what either of them is primarily known for.

You may like your highly irregular (erratic) tempi throughout this piece, but it certainly doesn't sound anything like what most professionals (nor Bach specialists) would do with this. It doesn't have to be metronomic, but it should have a very steady pace which your performance does not.

Regards,

Should I try to just listen to Richter or another player and copy them then?
I think it's a good idea to try out. Copy the interpretations of the greats with a curious mind and try to figure out what makes them tick. I think it's a very effective but underutilized method to learn nuances of interpretation imo. People get worked up about slavishly copying someone's interpretation, but I don't think you really have to worry about it unless you're at a high level already, because you won't even be able to notice many of the nuances, let alone recreate them effectively. A lot of good pianists are able to mimic the sounds that their favorite pianists create, because they've studied them so much.

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Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by pablobear
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by pablobear
[...] My fav pianists are Cortot and Horowitz, so I try to maybe play like them a bit. I don't know how they would play this piece though.

[...]

There's the point: You don't know how Horowitz or Cortot may have played this Prelude. And the keyboard music of Bach is a far cry from what either of them is primarily known for.

You may like your highly irregular (erratic) tempi throughout this piece, but it certainly doesn't sound anything like what most professionals (nor Bach specialists) would do with this. It doesn't have to be metronomic, but it should have a very steady pace which your performance does not.

Regards,

Should I try to just listen to Richter or another player and copy them then?
I think it's a good idea to try out. Copy the interpretations of the greats with a curious mind and try to figure out what makes them tick. I think it's a very effective but underutilized method to learn nuances of interpretation imo. People get worked up about slavishly copying someone's interpretation, but I don't think you really have to worry about it unless you're at a high level already, because you won't even be able to notice many of the nuances, let alone recreate them effectively. A lot of good pianists are able to mimic the sounds that their favorite pianists create, because they've studied them so much.

If I starting copying the interpretations of great pianists, I would lose all motivation to continue playing. For me, music is personal expression.


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Originally Posted by dogperson
If I starting copying the interpretations of great pianists, I would lose all motivation to continue playing. For me, music is personal expression.
So for me, I think of it in terms of stealing expressive and interpretive possibilities. (In the sense of good artists copy, great artists steal!) If I hear someone play and am not sure how such a sound could be produced on the piano, I go to the piano and experiment to try and achieve the same effect.

It's also helpful in order to realize where the "bounds" of interpretation are. For example, Schiff uses a decent amount of rubato in his Bach. So in order to figure out what kind of rubato is conventionally acceptable, I would go to similar recordings and play around with that.

I don't really find the notes that interesting, the number of possibilities you can achieve using different sonorities etc. can only be acquired by either listening or a great teacher, and I'm not sure about the second. After all, I want to develop my personal bag of sounds.

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Originally Posted by pablobear
. . .
edit: also watching it back again and looking at it, I've noticed that there are times where I don't intentionally want to change my rhythm and I do in this performance. I think the more I attempt it I can get something that would fit.

FWIW --

_Intended_ changes of tempo are OK; _unintended_ changes tend to be in spots that don't make musical sense.

There's too much rubato for my taste, but "taste" is the operative word.

The pedalling is a problem in spots. In some places, you hold the pedal down through a chord change, and the music gets muddy. It sounds like "Oh, I forgot to lift the pedal. . . " and the dampers come down, but a beat or two too late.

These are minor nits. I like your playing -- keep on with it, please!


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Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by dogperson
If I starting copying the interpretations of great pianists, I would lose all motivation to continue playing. For me, music is personal expression.
So for me, I think of it in terms of stealing expressive and interpretive possibilities. (In the sense of good artists copy, great artists steal!) If I hear someone play and am not sure how such a sound could be produced on the piano, I go to the piano and experiment to try and achieve the same effect.

It's also helpful in order to realize where the "bounds" of interpretation are. For example, Schiff uses a decent amount of rubato in his Bach. So in order to figure out what kind of rubato is conventionally acceptable, I would go to similar recordings and play around with that.

I don't really find the notes that interesting, the number of possibilities you can achieve using different sonorities etc. can only be acquired by either listening or a great teacher, and I'm not sure about the second. After all, I want to develop my personal bag of sounds.

We will just need to agree to disagree.


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Why are you speeding up and then slowing down? There’s no rubato with Bach, and what you are doing is not even rubato. Try to develop a steady pulse and practice without the damper pedal. The playing should sound clean and even.



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