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Thank you for all your input, and that has been a great help to me in my search. I finally settled on a 2013 Kawai KM10 for 8K. It's in great condition, actually the first owner bought it brand new from the same dealer, and traded in after 8 years for something else.

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Congratulations!


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Originally Posted by FDT
Thank you for all your input, and that has been a great help to me in my search. I finally settled on a 2013 Kawai KM10 for 8K. It's in great condition, actually the first owner bought it brand new from the same dealer, and traded in after 8 years for something else.
That's terrific. You've had quite a piano search journey. Hope this new (to you) Kawai will give both you and your daughter pleasure for many years to come. And FYI, eight years is not old for a piano - not by a long shot. Have fun !!!!


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Does the piano need to be a baby grand? Do you play? You would be better off with a high-quality 50" upright such as a K5, K500, if you need a Kawai. You would be much happier with the sound quality. These instruments are professional grade. Something else to consider. smile

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Do you mean a GM-10? I've not heard of a KM-10


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Thanks!
And now, practice.

Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by FDT
Thank you for all your input, and that has been a great help to me in my search. I finally settled on a 2013 Kawai KM10 for 8K. It's in great condition, actually the first owner bought it brand new from the same dealer, and traded in after 8 years for something else.
That's terrific. You've had quite a piano search journey. Hope this new (to you) Kawai will give both you and your daughter pleasure for many years to come. And FYI, eight years is not old for a piano - not by a long shot. Have fun !!!!

Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Congratulations!

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Yes, that's a typo.
Originally Posted by MarkL
Do you mean a GM-10? I've not heard of a KM-10

I have considered an upright earlier in my search, but eventually narrow it down to a baby grand. I probably wouldn't have spent 8K on an upright, just my personal preference.
Originally Posted by RayR3004
Does the piano need to be a baby grand? Do you play? You would be better off with a high-quality 50" upright such as a K5, K500, if you need a Kawai. You would be much happier with the sound quality. These instruments are professional grade. Something else to consider. smile

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Congratulations to you and your daughter!
Do not forget to send us pictures when the piano arrives in your home!


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Congratulations! 🎉🎊🎈
I’m sure you and your daughter enjoy the new piano!

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The GL-10
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Any Kawai dealers near you? You could probably get a brand new Kawai GL10, which is an updated version of the GM-12, for about the same price with free delivery if dealer is in your town. My guess is that delivery at that distance would be around $800.

That being said, are you stuck on a baby grand? If it were me, I'd look for a slightly older but larger piano at that price.

$8000 including delivery is below dealer cost. You are setting up false expectations.


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Originally Posted by Steve Cohen
The GL-10
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Any Kawai dealers near you? You could probably get a brand new Kawai GL10, which is an updated version of the GM-12, for about the same price with free delivery if dealer is in your town. My guess is that delivery at that distance would be around $800.

That being said, are you stuck on a baby grand? If it were me, I'd look for a slightly older but larger piano at that price.

$8000 including delivery is below dealer cost. You are setting up false expectations.


This is an interesting example, and interesting wording.

SMP for a GL-10 is 15590. That would put dealer cost at roughly 7800. So it actually could be "delivery" that put this into the red for a dealer.

But since the numbers are so close, I'm wondering for which dealer?

Steve has posted in the past that different dealers have different costs, and provided examples in which Dealer X can profitably undercut Dealer Y because high-volume dealers receive significant discounts. And I understand that dealers who buy by the container can receive up to a 25% discount.

A 25% discount from "wholesale" could put the GL-10's cost as low as 5850! A dealer like that could apparently sell this piano for a 1/3 markup, and still be below a low-volume dealer's cost, just like in Steve's examples!


I'm guessing that Steve's statement is accurate for low-volume dealers.
And Emery's is probably accurate for high-volume dealers.


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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
And I understand that dealers who buy by the container can receive up to a 25% discount.

Source and brand, please.


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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by RPA88
I would consider an alternative, for example the piano shown below.

The people at Stilwell are great to work with. I recently purchased a Steinway from them and it was an outstanding experience.

https://stilwellpianos.com/collections/used-grand-baby-grand/products/chas-m-stieff-baby-grand-piano
Unless I'm reading that page incorrectly that piano was built in 1911. Piano that age often need complete rebuilding and very little work could have been done on that piano for the quoted price. The only rebuilding mentioned in the video was replacing hammers and strings 10-15 years ago. It's possible the piano is good but it certainly needs to be inspected by an independent tech.
Replacing the hammers and strings, sometimes the dampers, and regulating the action often is all an older piano needs to be put in good playable condition. Even if a full rebuild of the action was done, it may have been done 15 or 40 years ago and not push the price up dramatically. You seem to have a categorical view of vintage piano condition as if the only possibilities are completely worn out or just rebuilt fully by who is now selling it. If you bought a fully rebuilt piano, and sell it 10-15 years later, how would you describe it, and how would the rebuild affect price?

But even assuming the piano is in good playable condition with plenty of life in the hammers, dampers, and strings, the price still seems high for the particular piano in question. I tend to think that a Knabe or Chickering baby grand of similar age and in good playable condition could be found at a similar price.

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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
And I understand that dealers who buy by the container can receive up to a 25% discount.

Source and brand, please.

Source(s)? You might be surprised. wink
Obviously, though, I'm not going to undermine anyone's trust in me. thumb

Brand(s)? Candidly, I don't know the discount schedule of every manufacturer. I do know some, and believe the statement I made above is factual (as confirmed by multiple industry people).

The good news is that the specifics don't matter. We know the piano market works this way. Steve, for one, has made that clear publicly, and it's consistent with the overarching dealership model (boats, cars, etc).


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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
And I understand that dealers who buy by the container can receive up to a 25% discount.

Source and brand, please.

Isn't buying merchandise by the parcel at a discount relative to retail price, maintaining inventory, and selling individual pieces at retail price, the model of most retailers?

What is specific about pianos and other big ticket items like cars, at least in the US, is that the retail price is neither fixed nor advertised.

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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
[...]
What is specific about pianos and other big ticket items like cars, at least in the US, is that the retail price is neither fixed nor advertised.

Generally speaking, auto dealers don't always advertise their prices. On the other hand, many newspaper ads do give prices for individual models of new vehicles, at least locally.

I have found that going to a website of a particular automobile manufacturer and "building" a certain model based on options will give a specific bottom-line price, and "see your dealer for a test drive."

Regards,


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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
[...]
What is specific about pianos and other big ticket items like cars, at least in the US, is that the retail price is neither fixed nor advertised.

Generally speaking, auto dealers don't always advertise their prices. On the other hand, many newspaper ads do give prices for individual models of new vehicles, at least locally.

I have found that going to a website of a particular automobile manufacturer and "building" a certain model based on options will give a specific bottom-line price, and "see your dealer for a test drive."

Regards,


Manufacturers, distributors and dealers are governed by a variety of national and state/provincial laws and regulations, which vary from country to country and state to state (and even by industry), not to mention contractual agreements among themselves.


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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I'm guessing that Steve's statement is accurate for low-volume dealers.
And Emery's is probably accurate for high-volume dealers.

After contemplating the above for a day or two, let me amend it a bit.

Steve's statement is probably true for low-volume dealers. But since it's seemingly true only due to the difference that "delivery" introduces, it likely is not true for dealers who receive volume discounts or incentives.

That said, I don't think it's likely that anyone will find GL-10s available for 8k. It's theoretically feasible -- if a dealer receives a significant discount and is willing to accept a low margin -- but probably not likely, especially in today's tight market.


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