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#3149679 08/25/21 09:54 AM
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I've went to a store with my son to try some dp's. We tried the fp90x, the clp 735, the p515, and I also tried an old refurbished yamaha U1.
The acoustic was more to get an idea of an acoustic action, as it is above my budget.
Well, my son liked the actions of all the digitals he tried, he found them comfortable, even the p515, and preferred the roland sound.
To be frank, I wish I had the money to get the U1, it had a very sweet sound.
Now the problem is that there is no kawai to try here at all. My only option is to get it sight unseen. The reason I consider the mp7se is purely its stage capabilities, I just like such instruments.
It is a bit cheaper than the p515, but I have to order ot from Germany, no way to get it locally, except if I play the waiting game.
What interests me the most is the reliability of the instruments. I really dont want the trouble of messing with warranty claims and waiting for spare parts etc, and I admit I've read enough horror stories regarding the Kawai.
So, what do you guys think?

Skropi #3149680 08/25/21 10:12 AM
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I wouldn't worry about the warranty issue, there are plenty of complaints about all brands/models here, and the vast majority of buyers of any DP get a perfectly working unit.

But given that you don't have an MP7SE to try, I think it's quite a gamble to select it sight-unseen.

Is this for home playing/practice? Are you going to be using headphones? Are you satisfied with the built-in speakers on the models you tried?

It sounds like your son has an overall preference for the Roland. Is he the primary player? It's hard to go wrong with it, the PHA-50 action is well-regarded, as is the PureAcoustic modeled sound engine.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Skropi #3149682 08/25/21 10:18 AM
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I would buy the P515. Your son likes the piano and you get local warranty service. The P515 has been around for a while. Based on forum posts, the P515 has been quite reliable and Yamaha provides good service.

There is the possibility the MP7se gets damaged in shipping. Or that your son does not like it. If one were local, the conversation would be different.

No brainer.

Gombessa #3149683 08/25/21 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I wouldn't worry about the warranty issue, there are plenty of complaints about all brands/models here, and the vast majority of buyers of any DP get a perfectly working unit.

But given that you don't have an MP7SE to try, I think it's quite a gamble to select it sight-unseen.

Is this for home playing/practice? Are you going to be using headphones? Are you satisfied with the built-in speakers on the models you tried?

It sounds like your son has an overall preference for the Roland. Is he the primary player? It's hard to go wrong with it, the PHA-50 action is well-regarded, as is the PureAcoustic modeled sound engine.
Yes, 99.9% of its time will be spent for home practice. I do hope to jam with friends in the far future, but realistically this is a very slim possibility. I've found the speakers of all the models we tried.... adequate, and thats the reason I dont mind getting a dp without speakers. We will be using headphones mainly, but in case we get a dp without speakres, I will also get a pair of cheap JBL's 305 MkII.

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Originally Posted by newer player
I would buy the P515. Your son likes the piano and you get local warranty service. The P515 has been around for a while. Based on forum posts, the P515 has been quite reliable and Yamaha provides good service.

There is the possibility the MP7se gets damaged in shipping. Or that your son does not like it. If one were local, the conversation would be different.

No brainer.
Yep, that's a good point. I could send an email to a Kawai dealer in my area, and see how long is the wait to get the Kawai. The problem is that he will order just one, after I give him a deposit. In essence it will still be buying it blindly.

Skropi #3149717 08/25/21 12:35 PM
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I personally would not buy an instrument without trying it. It, to me, is not a piece of tech but something that has to capture your desire, aesthetic, sound, feel, user interface, leading hopefully onto creativity and pleasure spent with hours of practice. etc. Some of these can be 'replaced', sound by VST and keys by midi, etc, but it's not the same. YMMV

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The Kawai you are looking at also doesn’t’ have speakers. For home practicing, I think that’s impractical.


Rodney Sauer
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
I personally would not buy an instrument without trying it. It, to me, is not a piece of tech but something that has to capture your desire, aesthetic, sound, feel, user interface, leading hopefully onto creativity and pleasure spent with hours of practice. etc. Some of these can be 'replaced', sound by VST and keys by midi, etc, but it's not the same. YMMV
I totally agree. I could never play an instrument that I don't like its looks of. Music is the king of arts, it captures all our senses, in ways real and unreal, practical and unpractical, logical and illogical. It's the reason I adore the celtic harp, just looking at one makes me fall in love with the world. Maybe I should start saving money for a harp too 🤣

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Originally Posted by ColoRodney
The Kawai you are looking at also doesn’t’ have speakers. For home practicing, I think that’s impractical.
I don't fret about onboard speakers, as the mp7se plus a pair of 305's will be about the same price as the p515. What does trouble me is that I cant test it, and I also have the suspicion that its keybed is more sensitive to damage. I could be wrong about that, but I admit I am concerned.
In reality, reliability is high in the list, as it will be the sole instrument my son will practice on.

Skropi #3149770 08/25/21 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Skropi
I've went to a store with my son to try some dp's. We tried the fp90x, the clp 735, the p515, and I also tried an old refurbished yamaha U1.
The acoustic was more to get an idea of an acoustic action, as it is above my budget.
Well, my son liked the actions of all the digitals he tried, he found them comfortable, even the p515, and preferred the roland sound.
To be frank, I wish I had the money to get the U1, it had a very sweet sound.
Now the problem is that there is no kawai to try here at all. My only option is to get it sight unseen. The reason I consider the mp7se is purely its stage capabilities, I just like such instruments.
It is a bit cheaper than the p515, but I have to order ot from Germany, no way to get it locally, except if I play the waiting game.
What interests me the most is the reliability of the instruments. I really dont want the trouble of messing with warranty claims and waiting for spare parts etc, and I admit I've read enough horror stories regarding the Kawai.
So, what do you guys think?

What do you want: a good stage piano, or a good portable piano???😉

If you want a good portable piano,
P515
ES920
FP90X

If you want a good stage piano:

MP7SE
RD2000
Kurzweil Forte
Dexibell Vivo S7/S9 Pro

Like 1970's user interface controls
Nord Grand/Nord Piano 5/Nord Stage 3
Korg SV2 / Grandstage
Yamaha CP88 / YC88

Like a 1970's stage piano with modern quality sound synthesis:
Crumar 7
Viscount Legend 70


Want a home/studio piano with sporty stage piano stitched into its DNA, and the best action in a stage piano

Kawai MP11SE


Want a controller with the second best action in a slab
for playing VST's

Kawai VPC1

Last edited by Doug M.; 08/25/21 03:35 PM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Skropi #3149775 08/25/21 03:51 PM
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Besides what you might value, I love my MP7SE, so I recommend it, with the caveat that I played the ES8 and a bunch of cabinet pianos made by Kawai. I was somewhat won over by the ES8 but wanted more.

I don't suggest a blind buy. That said, I had never played the MP7 that I first brought. I took a measured risk. Buying completely blind is a bigger risk right? ! 😉

Last edited by Doug M.; 08/25/21 03:53 PM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Doug M. #3149802 08/25/21 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
.... I love my MP7SE, so I recommend it, with the caveat that I played the ES8 and a bunch of cabinet pianos made by Kawai. I was somewhat won over by the ES8 .....

That is exactly my story.

I also owned the MP11SE for a couple of years and sold it in favor of the ES920 because I wanted internal speakers and that turned out to be something I could not stick with.

I then tried the MP7SE and am very pleased because it actually seems to sound and feel just like sort of a mix between the ES8 that I had owned and the MP11SE.


Don

Kawai MP7SE, Edifier R1850DB Bookshelf speakers, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
Skropi #3149880 08/26/21 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Skropi
Originally Posted by ColoRodney
The Kawai you are looking at also doesn’t’ have speakers. For home practicing, I think that’s impractical.
I don't fret about onboard speakers, as the mp7se plus a pair of 305's will be about the same price as the p515.
It won't sound as good though.


Yamaha P-515
JoeT #3149903 08/26/21 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Skropi
Originally Posted by ColoRodney
The Kawai you are looking at also doesn’t’ have speakers. For home practicing, I think that’s impractical.
I don't fret about onboard speakers, as the mp7se plus a pair of 305's will be about the same price as the p515.
It won't sound as good though.

I think that the best monitors are perhaps Neumann KH120A, Adam A7X or the equivalent Genelec's which for some reason, I can never remember the name of. These are pricy, but will be better than any portable speaker setup. They are pretty much what most stage owners would love to have for the home if one can stretch to the price. The Focal Alpha 50 is IMO one of the best value powered monitors available for a stage piano, and will easily sound better than a portable speaker setup.

The CFX P515 acoustic piano sound tone is different to the Kawai (Kawai is darker, deeper, and less bright/more mellow) . If you prefer the SK grand tone, you will enjoy the MP7SE more.

The bosendorfer in the P515 is pitched against the SK5 grand in the Kawai. Both are delightful to play, and due to lack of binaural sampling, the Bosendorfer in the P515 isn't as good as the CFX sample.

The P515 CFX sound clarity is a grade better than the SK9 grand in the MP7SE, but since then, the ES920 closed the gap and pushed the boat a bit more. I personally would look at the ES920 if I was into buying a portable. It's newer tech than the P515.

Regardless, these two instruments - - P515 and MP7SE - - - aren't directly competing, as they are targeted at different market segments.

The stage piano is so much more than a portable. Except for the acoustic piano being an older sample, the MP7SE has more sound categories and comes with awesome organ and synth patches that go way beyond the P515. The epianos in the MP7SE are equal to the Yamaha ones, but slightly different in style. I really like both Yamaha and Kawai epiano patches.

The MP7SE has the ability to change sounds instantly and without the artifact older technology produces (P515 does not have this), and you can layer 4 internal and 4 external sounds together, making 8 parts possible. If you want something for a band, the MP7SE is a steal. It's a better midi controller and has more registrations. Sound selection on the Kawai is very intuitive and the editing functions are more advanced.

If you want none of that, and are just looking for Piano with maybe a few other sounds and on board speakers, then compare the portables.

Currently, the portable market is vibrant, with Yamaha yet to respond to the improved ES920 (which sounds much better than the ES8 and brings the Kawai a nose ahead of the P515 IMO). The FP90X is also very good (myself, not a fan of the current modelled sound chip, but some really like it), and with a VST, the FP90X is arguably a good option too because the action is great. I think all three portables are super instruments, leaving a great choice. You should definitely test all three before deciding, if a portable is your bag.

Basically, I can see no reason to compare portables to a stage piano, unless you are either suffering from an internal values battle lol, or have multiple personality disorder. The portable buyer doesn't want or need options, functions, etc, and they want on board speakers. Usually, it's a black n white split.

Of course, you can want to occasionally mess with functionality in a stage just for fun. In which case, you have to assess how much you want that.

If you want the better piano sound from the ES920 in a stage piano, and are prepared to wait, the replacement for the MP7SE might be coming 6 months to the next few years. Everything seems uncertain with Covid thing.

Last edited by Doug M.; 08/26/21 05:52 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Doug M. #3149955 08/26/21 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Skropi
Originally Posted by ColoRodney
The Kawai you are looking at also doesn’t’ have speakers. For home practicing, I think that’s impractical.
I don't fret about onboard speakers, as the mp7se plus a pair of 305's will be about the same price as the p515.
It won't sound as good though.

Apparently the crap speakers in P515 sound brilliant!

Originally Posted by Doug M.
...
If you want the better piano sound from the ES920 in a stage piano, and are prepared to wait, the replacement for the MP7SE might be coming 6 months to the next few years. Everything seems uncertain with Covid thing.

No point in arguing with JoeT Doug M. For some, the reality doesn't matter. What matters is their perception of reality.

It's like aruging the existance of God/Allah with a religious person. Will never work.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Doug M. #3150064 08/26/21 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Skropi
Originally Posted by ColoRodney
The Kawai you are looking at also doesn’t’ have speakers. For home practicing, I think that’s impractical.
I don't fret about onboard speakers, as the mp7se plus a pair of 305's will be about the same price as the p515.
It won't sound as good though.

I think that the best monitors are perhaps Neumann KH120A, Adam A7X or the equivalent Genelec's which for some reason, I can never remember the name of. These are pricy, but will be better than any portable speaker setup. They are pretty much what most stage owners would love to have for the home if one can stretch to the price. The Focal Alpha 50 is IMO one of the best value powered monitors available for a stage piano, and will easily sound better than a portable speaker setup.

Sure, but spending at least another grand on top of the slab is making that refurbished U1 a way better sounding option. That's the crux. Built-in amplification provides the best bang for the buck.

Quote
The bosendorfer in the P515 is pitched against the SK5 grand in the Kawai. Both are delightful to play, and due to lack of binaural sampling, the Bosendorfer in the P515 isn't as good as the CFX sample.
The binaural sampling is a separate preset and only applies to headphones.

Quote
The P515 CFX sound clarity is a grade better than the SK9 grand in the MP7SE, but since then, the ES920 closed the gap and pushed the boat a bit more. I personally would look at the ES920 if I was into buying a portable. It's newer tech than the P515.
Debatable. The newer tech is built into CA99 and the likes, which hasn't trickled down to the ES920.

Quote
The stage piano is so much more than a portable. Except for the acoustic piano being an older sample, the MP7SE has more sound categories and comes with awesome organ and synth patches that go way beyond the P515.
Though without a band ready to go in your living room, these aren't really useful.

Stage pianos usually miss all these neat accompaniment features the P-515 has: rhythm section with bass line and chord detection, a built-in 16 track MIDI sequencer, 480 XG voices accessible through the panel and doubling as a Bluetooth speaker for the backing track.

That's the stuff that makes all these sound categories useful at home.

Quote
The MP7SE has the ability to change sounds instantly and without the artifact older technology produces (P515 does not have this), and you can layer 4 internal and 4 external sounds together, making 8 parts possible. If you want something for a band, the MP7SE is a steal. It's a better midi controller and has more registrations. Sound selection on the Kawai is very intuitive and the editing functions are more advanced.
And if we look, what the OP's son is looking for, it's probably not a 50 lbs rig for carrying to band rehearsals.


Yamaha P-515
JoeT #3150084 08/26/21 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Stage pianos usually miss all these neat accompaniment features the P-515 has: rhythm section with bass line and chord detection, a built-in 16 track MIDI sequencer, 480 XG voices accessible through the panel and doubling as a Bluetooth speaker for the backing track.

That's the stuff that makes all these sound categories useful at home.


I have nothing against the P-515 but lack of knowledge about other instruments leads to posts like above!

Last edited by Abdol; 08/26/21 04:11 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Doug M. #3150165 08/26/21 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Skropi
Originally Posted by ColoRodney
The Kawai you are looking at also doesn’t’ have speakers. For home practicing, I think that’s impractical.
I don't fret about onboard speakers, as the mp7se plus a pair of 305's will be about the same price as the p515.
It won't sound as good though.

I think that the best monitors are perhaps Neumann KH120A, Adam A7X or the equivalent Genelec's which for some reason, I can never remember the name of. These are pricy, but will be better than any portable speaker setup. They are pretty much what most stage owners would love to have for the home if one can stretch to the price. The Focal Alpha 50 is IMO one of the best value powered monitors available for a stage piano, and will easily sound better than a portable speaker setup.

The CFX P515 acoustic piano sound tone is different to the Kawai (Kawai is darker, deeper, and less bright/more mellow) . If you prefer the SK grand tone, you will enjoy the MP7SE more.

The bosendorfer in the P515 is pitched against the SK5 grand in the Kawai. Both are delightful to play, and due to lack of binaural sampling, the Bosendorfer in the P515 isn't as good as the CFX sample.

The P515 CFX sound clarity is a grade better than the SK9 grand in the MP7SE, but since then, the ES920 closed the gap and pushed the boat a bit more. I personally would look at the ES920 if I was into buying a portable. It's newer tech than the P515.

Regardless, these two instruments - - P515 and MP7SE - - - aren't directly competing, as they are targeted at different market segments.

The stage piano is so much more than a portable. Except for the acoustic piano being an older sample, the MP7SE has more sound categories and comes with awesome organ and synth patches that go way beyond the P515. The epianos in the MP7SE are equal to the Yamaha ones, but slightly different in style. I really like both Yamaha and Kawai epiano patches.

The MP7SE has the ability to change sounds instantly and without the artifact older technology produces (P515 does not have this), and you can layer 4 internal and 4 external sounds together, making 8 parts possible. If you want something for a band, the MP7SE is a steal. It's a better midi controller and has more registrations. Sound selection on the Kawai is very intuitive and the editing functions are more advanced.

If you want none of that, and are just looking for Piano with maybe a few other sounds and on board speakers, then compare the portables.

Currently, the portable market is vibrant, with Yamaha yet to respond to the improved ES920 (which sounds much better than the ES8 and brings the Kawai a nose ahead of the P515 IMO). The FP90X is also very good (myself, not a fan of the current modelled sound chip, but some really like it), and with a VST, the FP90X is arguably a good option too because the action is great. I think all three portables are super instruments, leaving a great choice. You should definitely test all three before deciding, if a portable is your bag.

Basically, I can see no reason to compare portables to a stage piano, unless you are either suffering from an internal values battle lol, or have multiple personality disorder. The portable buyer doesn't want or need options, functions, etc, and they want on board speakers. Usually, it's a black n white split.

Of course, you can want to occasionally mess with functionality in a stage just for fun. In which case, you have to assess how much you want that.

If you want the better piano sound from the ES920 in a stage piano, and are prepared to wait, the replacement for the MP7SE might be coming 6 months to the next few years. Everything seems uncertain with Covid thing.
In reality the p515 is the logical choice, no question about it. I just always liked stage functionality, especially when I remember my days in a heavy metal band.
Well, the reality is that I will get at most very few jams with friends at the far far future, so a stage piano will be more of an inconvenience in any case. Getting a p515, and an affordable midi keyboard down the road, meaning in a few years, seems like the logical course of action. I just can't get past the fact of how nice the kawai mp series look I guess!

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Guys, you really dont have to fight over such simple matters. About the speakers, yes, I would not spend much money on them, certainly not more than 250€.
In any case thank you all for your contribution.

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Originally Posted by Skropi
Guys, you really dont have to fight over such simple matters.

Yeah, sure...


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