Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Found a piano teacher and now I wish I hadn't

Thanks everyone! I played about as badly as I had expected, possibly worse. No amount of telling myself that it doesn't matter or pretending I'm alone works. She wanted me to play things to get a better idea of where I'm at. I performed abysmally. The classical pieces I played (and I picked easy ones that I've been playing with no problems for at least a month - Bach Minuets in G minor and major, and Handel Gavotte and Variation in G major) I messed up and then couldn't get my continuity back after that. Strangely enough the few hymns I played I played flawlessly, even though there were new ones among them also. Maybe it's just because that's what I'm used to?
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My hands were shaking for like an hour afterwards.

Obviously, your situation is different as you are not an adult beginner, but it brings to mind a scene in a Tom Cruise movie (*), where he asks his partner as they were both together in a very precarious situation (i.e. very bad people want to hurt them very badly): "Do you trust me?"

If a student doesn't trust his teacher implicitly to teach him properly, he should get rid of him/her and look for another one. If he thinks he knows better than teachers, he should teach himself (it's almost always himself, never herself). There have been lots of threads in ABF about what happens when students don't trust their teachers, just because they didn't teach in the manner, or at the pace that they wanted or expected (even though to us old hands, they were teaching properly).

My old friend's personal story, which he doesn't mind me telling ad nauseam (- he tells me good tales bear repeated repeats): he started piano lessons at 60, after a lifetime of attending concerts by all the greatest pianists past & present (he lives very close to London) - he's seen Horowitz, Richter, Gilels, Rubinstein, Michelangeli.....etc, etc. And he has a huge CD collection of all the greatest pianists who ever recorded. So, you could say he knows what great piano playing is all about: he's seen the greats play up close, scrutinized their movements, their technique, their pedalling, even heard their humming/groaning/singing.

He did his research thoroughly and found a good teacher who specialized in teaching adults. After an initial hiccup (when his new teacher treated him as a "knowledgeable adult student" - after all, he knew what great piano playing is about, didn't he? - but he found himself floundering with basic concepts), he asked his teacher to teach him exactly the same way, using the same materials, as he would teach his child students. His teacher, to his relief, was happy to agree that was the best way, and started completely from scratch: counting beats aloud, getting fully acquainted with note-reading using very basic tunes with single notes on each hand, using all fingers and both hands equally at all times etc. In fact, from what I saw when I visited him, his teacher used the same books my first teacher used with me, and the same ones I use with my child students; and he was taught everything exactly the same way, with baby steps, not running before walking, lots of revision of basic concepts all the way etc.

The result, several years on, is that he is now an accomplished pianist, able to learn new pieces from Bach to Bacharach (OK, maybe not Bacharach, as he's not into pop) all by himself with no technical weaknesses and proper musicality, and he can also sight-sing (he joined a choir which performed everything from Handel to Lauridsen before the pandemic, and has recently restarted again with lifting of restrictions), as well as play by ear and improvise (though unlike me, he doesn't dabble in non-classical). His teacher is now more like a mentor and good friend to him, though he is still taking lessons.

(* Mr Cruise came to mind because in a clip on BBC TV just now, he dropped in by helicopter on a family in rural Warwickshire while filming Mission Possible XX, and as a reward for giving him permission to land on their field, took them up for the ride of their lives.....)

The result, several years on, is that he is now an accomplished pianist, able to learn new pieces from Bach to Bacharach (OK, maybe not Bacharach, as he's not into pop) all by himself with no technical weaknesses and proper musicality

this is a great story. How long did it take him to get to this level?

Obviously, your situation is different as you are not an adult beginner....

My old friend's personal story....

The result, several years on, is that he is now an accomplished pianist....

The story of your old friend is an extremely encouraging read for me, for I am in fact an adult beginner, and I started a decade later than him, at 71, four and a half years ago.

As they say…it’s all in the mind.

It is a nice thought, but sooner or later, once you have reached the autumn or the winter of your life, you'll find that this thought is denial. Things will start to deteriorate. It maybe your knees, your eyesight, your memory... And you will need to find your way around it, or accept your loss.

He's now nearly ten years into his lessons.

By seven years, he was playing several movements from Mozart and Beethoven sonatas and a couple of Chopin nocturnes, waltzes, mazurkas etc, to the standard of ABRSM grade 8 (the highest). Bear in mind, he started lessons after he retired, and most of his leisure time is devoted towards classical music and the piano (he owns a Steinway upright, after a brief fling with digitals). He doesn't know how many hours he spends at the piano a day, because he goes and play something (or practice) whenever he feels like it.

And - from his lifelong job at a huge multi-national company in which he rose up the ranks to senior project manager before he retired, he knew that anything worth doing was worth doing well, and that short-cuts and rushing through basic stuff are a sure road towards long-term problems (if not disaster) later, so he was happy to start slow in order to build up his basic skills properly. Compared to almost everyone else here in ABF (based on their posts), his first few years saw him progressing far, far slower, because his teacher knew exactly what he sought: a strong grounding in basics so that he would not run into problems later on (after all, he was a self-confessed 'old man' when he started piano): I think he started learning Clementi's Sonatina in C, Op.36/1 after four years of lessons, for instance; and his first Chopin a year later.

When I watch and listen to him playing now - Chopin's Op.64/2 and various other waltzes and nocturnes, Beethoven's Op.49 sonatas, assorted late Brahms pieces (most of which he learnt entirely by himself), Bartók's Romanian Folk Dances are in his current rep - it's difficult to believe that he knew nothing about piano playing before he was 60: his finger movements are fluid and sure, there is no suggestion of any unnecessary tension, fingerwork and articulation are absolutely even and precise, he can 'voice' melodies (including in the middle of textures) and balance chords with no problems. He can use 'arm weight' etc when required to produce a full tone (he is currently learning Brahms's Rhapsody in G minor, Op.79/2 - again by himself).

Did I forget to mention: his sight-reading skills are excellent, as are his aural skills (he was originally intending to do ABRSM exams, but then decided they would be too stressful, but his teacher did continue following the syllabus grade by grade), which is why he can sight-sing and is a valuable member of his choir. He does perform - but only as a member of the choir, not as pianist. His piano playing is "for my own private pleasure" and he no longer watches those virtuoso pianists whose concerts he attends with envy, but with real appreciation of their skills, knowing what it took him to get to where he now is.

Man this is so awesome. Do you know what books his teacher had him learn from?

All that blah blah about ... you're never too old to learn something is horse doo-doo.
It's just smoke that's been blown up your behind.
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Fact is, no you're not too old to learn, but yes you're probably too old to get really good at it.

Your body especially fingers, knees, eyes are simply not able to do certain things anywhere near well enough to be better than mediocre. It's a fact. I don't care if you agree or not, it's still a fact.

OP, you can play hymns? What for yourself?
You can only play hymns?
Or you play them in a church?
On an organ?
How is a hymn different?
It has musical notes, maybe some spiritual la-la-la but it's still musical notes?
Four line melodies no problem, fugue's no problem, but you fall apart playing a Bach Minuet.
I'm confused.
Just listening to a Fugue melts my brain, let alone play it. If I could play a Bach Fugue then I fail to see how I could fall apart playing a Minuet.
Hmmm it smells like something to me. Smells like you're frustrated about not getting from your teacher what you want. It's very simple really. Find another teacher. It's up to you to find a teacher that works for you. It's not up to a teacher to give you something you need, since you're the only one who's in charge of your satisfaction. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're doing something wrong. I'm saying it sounds like you're having an issue with one thing and focussing on another thing. If a teacher is pleasing you, then you're likely not learning anything. Learning tends to suck, it's frustrating, it's well hard w*o*r*k hence it's also called practice.

All that blah blah about ... you're never too old to learn something is horse doo-doo.
It's just smoke that's been blown up your behind.
The kind of smoke old people tell themselves because they have too many regrets of rubbish they were doing when they were younger. When they really should have spent it doing something else. Regret is a bastard.
Fact is, no you're not too old to learn, but yes you're probably too old to get really good at it. Your body especially fingers, knees, eyes are simply not able to do certain things anywhere near well enough to be better than mediocre. It's a fact. I don't care if you agree or not, it's still a fact.
I'm not on the young side anymore, but even at my age after sitting playing for about 3 hours I can really start to feel it, everywhere.

Learning and playing piano, is all about what YOU want. You create your reality. Every minute of it. If you're already frustrated, you won't get anywhere.
Get comfortable with being uncomfortable and do what you gotta do, within realistic boundaries.
Or stick to what you're good at, like Fugue's (apparently)

Telling someone to get another teacher without giving them any idea as to how you pursue that goal is pointless.

. . .
If we believe we have already achieved something in our sub-conscience, it will be manifested. . . .