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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Oh oh!! Super happy to complain about Airturn!!! grin
Ugh, very much hit or miss, you have to kind of pound on the thing to get it to respond....

Anyway, as you might guess, I started with an Airturn, but maybe three years ago I finally figured out that there was no reason why the tech should be so sketchy. I switched to a PageFlip Butterfly. They make at least one other model, and I think I just picked the cheaper one. But it is amazingly consistent and reliable.

I don't play professionally, but I do play for people (pre-covid) and I play with a violinist so our scores are super long. I use the PageFlip all the time and have zero problems. So I highly recommend this over the Airturn!

This is the one I bought, there might be a newer one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LIROF7W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ah yes the Page Flip! I actually nearly bought that in December after using the Airturn for 3 months and being unhappy how much it moved about. I never went through with the purchase in the end but maybe I will now. Is it noisy when you press it?

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Noisy, that is a good question. I don't think it's noisy, but I will pay attention this evening and see if I can hear it.

I do have carpeting, that might make a difference. If you are worried about noise, you could get a little pad to put underneath, like maybe one of those rubbery drying mats for use on a kitchen counter top?


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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Noisy, that is a good question. I don't think it's noisy, but I will pay attention this evening and see if I can hear it.

I do have carpeting, that might make a difference. If you are worried about noise, you could get a little pad to put underneath, like maybe one of those rubbery drying mats for use on a kitchen counter top?

I was thinking more the noise as you click it, rather than against the surface (I too have it on a carpet)

Looking at Amazon here in the UK I may struggle to get it!

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I use the Airturn BT200S-2. Big, red, robust, metal switches. Mechanical click when you tap it. I love it. I also set both switches to only go forward, so no going back for me. If there is a repeat that goes back, I duplicate those pages in Forscore. This cuts down on page turn errors a lot...

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Hmm, if you can't get it from Amazon UK, is there a big guitar/musician's gear store you could try?

I found this:

https://www.gear4music.com/search/?str_search_phrase=page+flip+butterfly+bluetooth+foot+pedal

And this (don't know if Thomanns have a UK based shop or could ship to you?)
https://www.thomann.de/gb/search_di...bluetooth+foot+pedal&smcs=3a28f0_686

Might be worth a try?


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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Hmm, if you can't get it from Amazon UK, is there a big guitar/musician's gear store you could try?

I found this:

https://www.gear4music.com/search/?str_search_phrase=page+flip+butterfly+bluetooth+foot+pedal

And this (don't know if Thomanns have a UK based shop or could ship to you?)
https://www.thomann.de/gb/search_di...bluetooth+foot+pedal&smcs=3a28f0_686

Might be worth a try?

Thanks for that - yes, I found the same gear4music site last night (£85) and the tab is still open on my browser this morning as I mull it over. I guess I could always send it back if it's worse than the Airturn :p


Originally Posted by Sam S
I use the Airturn BT200S-2. Big, red, robust, metal switches. Mechanical click when you tap it. I love it. I also set both switches to only go forward, so no going back for me. If there is a repeat that goes back, I duplicate those pages in Forscore. This cuts down on page turn errors a lot...

Sam

That's such a good idea, thanks Sam.

I use a BT200, which was a recommendation. I'd definitely prefer a silent click, but also one that gives some physical feedback that it's been pressed. The BT200 is audibly silent but so flat I'm never 100% sure the foot press has been registered.

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Originally Posted by WBLynch
Plus, No one will dump an uninvited os update on sheet music in the middle of practice or performance.
iOS/iPadOS shouldn't do that. Even if you have automatic updates enabled, it waits until the device is unused sometime in the middle of the night. And you don't even need airplane mode to stop it from doing that--just turn off automatic updates, and it will instead signal you with a red dot on the Settings icon that there's an update you should enable at whatever time is convenient.

I just need a bigger iPad. I can't complain since my brother gave me his 2018 iPad Pro, which rocks for most uses, but at 10.5" (they measure diagonally, alas) it's a touch small for my aged eyes to read music from in any serious way. I've enjoyed using it for things like Piano Marvel though.


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I've considered using a large external touch screen monitor and connecting it to a PC. And then use MobileSheets. Haven't found the right monitor yet tough. Ideally something thin.


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Without reading the original post, I'd suggest getting a version of a given piece that you're most comfortable with, rather than what your teacher gives you.

For example, some versions of a piece might have the accompaniment notation for the left hand in a stretched, spread out manner, like two notes are in the bass clef and the third note is in the treble clef. This is not easy for me to read, because I can't instantly figure out the intervals for my fingers.

This is from first hand experience with the latest piece I'm working on.


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ranjit, I'm afraid that there's nothing that will magically allow you to sight read better; experience at playing is the only thing that will allow you to sight read better, and such experience takes time to acquire...if at all.

When I began lessons during the 60's at age 5, I had no expectations of instant sight reading skills or the ability to play difficult music by age 6, but nowadays it seems common for new students of the piano to think that just because they want to do something they can in fact do it, and they don't want to wait years to acquire the necessary experience and abilities, they want it NOW. Unfortunately, those who lack these necessary abilities are continually fed false hope by instructors ($$), along with members of discussion forums who although trying to be helpful, are only denying the obvious; not everyone possesses the necessary eye/hand coordination required to play the piano let alone sight read successfully, no matter who their instructor is, no matter how expensive their piano is, no matter how many videos they watch on YouTube, and no matter what instant piano "course" they purchased.

So my suggestion to you is to have patience, and keep playing and practicing, and practicing and playing. Over time you should begin to better "know" the notes that you see written on the musical staff and their corresponding keys on the piano keyboard and be able to connect the two quicker. At best you'll become more proficient at it and find sight reading more easier and enjoyable, but don't be disappointed if you reach a plateau that you can't overcome, because...(reality check) it happens.

Best wishes to you.


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It's also important to remember that besides doing a lot of sight reading, one's general technical skill, knowledge of theory, knowledge of a composer's style are all important components of one's sight reading skill. There are plenty of pieces where the notes aren't that hard to read but the pieces are still difficult to sight read because of their technical demands. Some examples: advanced Czerny Etudes, the last movement of Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy, the first movement of Beethoven's Sonata in C major from Op. 10, and countless others.

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Originally Posted by DrewBone
When I began lessons during the 60's at age 5, I had no expectations of instant sight reading skills or the ability to play difficult music by age 6, but nowadays it seems common for new students of the piano to think that just because they want to do something they can in fact do it, and they don't want to wait years to acquire the necessary experience and abilities, they want it NOW. Unfortunately, those who lack these necessary abilities are continually fed false hope by instructors ($$), along with members of discussion forums who although trying to be helpful, are only denying the obvious; not everyone possesses the necessary eye/hand coordination required to play the piano let alone sight read successfully, no matter who their instructor is, no matter how expensive their piano is, no matter how many videos they watch on YouTube, and no matter what instant piano "course" they purchased.
I'm not so sure if this is true. Doesn't have-eye coordination develop over time? I have found quite a bit of improvement over the years, maybe I'm just naturally lucky? Also, what level of repertoire are we talking about here?

If someone starts reading at 5 and practices it for a few hours each day, wouldn't they be much better at age 6? Kids do get much better at reading text in that time frame if they read a lot too.

I say this because coordination at the piano seemed impossible initially, but I was able to play a simple accompaniment pattern within weeks, and I'm a few months, I could play more complicated stuff. So maybe a lot of people are approaching it wrong and hence not getting results? Or perhaps this is just me being optimistic.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
It's also important to remember that besides doing a lot of sight reading, one's general technical skill, knowledge of theory, knowledge of a composer's style are all important components of one's sight reading skill. There are plenty of pieces where the notes aren't that hard to read but the pieces are still difficult to sight read because of their technical demands. Some examples: advanced Czerny Etudes, the last movement of Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy, the first movement of Beethoven's Sonata in C major from Op. 10, and countless others.

I suspect a poster on the ABF would find many pieces too difficult to sight read because of technical demands


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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
It's also important to remember that besides doing a lot of sight reading, one's general technical skill, knowledge of theory, knowledge of a composer's style are all important components of one's sight reading skill. There are plenty of pieces where the notes aren't that hard to read but the pieces are still difficult to sight read because of their technical demands. Some examples: advanced Czerny Etudes, the last movement of Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy, the first movement of Beethoven's Sonata in C major from Op. 10, and countless others.

I suspect a poster on the ABF would find many pieces too difficult to sight read because of technical demands
Haha, well I'm the poster, and I'm rarely limited by technical demands in the pieces I attempt to sight read!

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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
It's also important to remember that besides doing a lot of sight reading, one's general technical skill, knowledge of theory, knowledge of a composer's style are all important components of one's sight reading skill. There are plenty of pieces where the notes aren't that hard to read but the pieces are still difficult to sight read because of their technical demands. Some examples: advanced Czerny Etudes, the last movement of Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy, the first movement of Beethoven's Sonata in C major from Op. 10, and countless others.
I suspect a poster on the ABF would find many pieces too difficult to sight read because of technical demands
My point was that technical improvement, independent of sight reading practice and experience, will improve one's sight reading ability. Same thing for improvement in knowledge of music theory.This applies at all ability levels including beginner.

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Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by DrewBone
When I began lessons during the 60's at age 5, I had no expectations of instant sight reading skills or the ability to play difficult music by age 6, but nowadays it seems common for new students of the piano to think that just because they want to do something they can in fact do it, and they don't want to wait years to acquire the necessary experience and abilities, they want it NOW. Unfortunately, those who lack these necessary abilities are continually fed false hope by instructors ($$), along with members of discussion forums who although trying to be helpful, are only denying the obvious; not everyone possesses the necessary eye/hand coordination required to play the piano let alone sight read successfully, no matter who their instructor is, no matter how expensive their piano is, no matter how many videos they watch on YouTube, and no matter what instant piano "course" they purchased.
I'm not so sure if this is true.

LOL .... I am not surprised.

If you did believe it, that would mean you would have to stop working on Sight-Reading and get onto the business of learning to play while reading. That is much more difficult.

Learning to sight-read carries no accountability with it.

You are always .... "Learning" .... with no specific way to measure your success.

So .... everything is good.

No personal accountability or means of determining success or failure .... just practicing things.

We all probably do that at some time in our journey.

I may be doing it right now.

Learning to play while reading music is very accountable.

Can you do it or not ?

Can you play this piece of music from beginning to end and have it sound like music OR NOT !

The answer is hard to face sometimes when you thought you were going to be a good piano playing and now you find out you may not be able to make that happen.

So .... you try to slip into "getting better"(fantasy) mode ... you mind does that for you.

You can only be "getting better" for so long and then you may have to face the truth ..... can you play it or not?


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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by DrewBone
When I began lessons during the 60's at age 5, I had no expectations of instant sight reading skills or the ability to play difficult music by age 6, but nowadays it seems common for new students of the piano to think that just because they want to do something they can in fact do it, and they don't want to wait years to acquire the necessary experience and abilities, they want it NOW. Unfortunately, those who lack these necessary abilities are continually fed false hope by instructors ($$), along with members of discussion forums who although trying to be helpful, are only denying the obvious; not everyone possesses the necessary eye/hand coordination required to play the piano let alone sight read successfully, no matter who their instructor is, no matter how expensive their piano is, no matter how many videos they watch on YouTube, and no matter what instant piano "course" they purchased.
I'm not so sure if this is true.

LOL .... I am not surprised.

If you did believe it, that would mean you would have to stop working on Sight-Reading and get onto the business of learning to play while reading. That is much more difficult.

Learning to sight-read carries no accountability with it.

You are always .... "Learning" .... with no specific way to measure your success.

So .... everything is good.

No personal accountability or means of determining success or failure .... just practicing things.

We all probably do that at some time in our journey.

I may be doing it right now.

Learning to play while reading music is very accountable.

Can you do it or not ?

Can you play this piece of music from beginning to end and have it sound like music OR NOT !

The answer is hard to face sometimes when you thought you were going to be a good piano playing and now you find out you may not be able to make that happen.

So .... you try to slip into "getting better"(fantasy) mode ... you mind does that for you.

You can only be "getting better" for so long and then you may have to face the truth ..... can you play it or not?
Sight reading and playing while reading from the music are both measurable skills. Neither of them are black and white, can or cannot do it skills. Both skills exist in degrees of competence.

I do agree that playing while reading is probably the more important skill. And it's usually correlates to one's sight reading skill.

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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by DrewBone
When I began lessons during the 60's at age 5, I had no expectations of instant sight reading skills or the ability to play difficult music by age 6, but nowadays it seems common for new students of the piano to think that just because they want to do something they can in fact do it, and they don't want to wait years to acquire the necessary experience and abilities, they want it NOW. Unfortunately, those who lack these necessary abilities are continually fed false hope by instructors ($$), along with members of discussion forums who although trying to be helpful, are only denying the obvious; not everyone possesses the necessary eye/hand coordination required to play the piano let alone sight read successfully, no matter who their instructor is, no matter how expensive their piano is, no matter how many videos they watch on YouTube, and no matter what instant piano "course" they purchased.
I'm not so sure if this is true.


Learning to sight-read carries no accountability with it.

You are always .... "Learning" .... with no specific way to measure your success.

You can only be "getting better" for so long and then you may have to face the truth ..... can you play it or not?

What if you're sight reading music to accompany someone who is being examined, or for a singer in an audition room?

That's pretty high pressure and the pianist is highly accountable for what they play and how it affects someone else.

Can the success of it be measured? Of course, depending how happy the person you're accompanying reacts to your efforts.

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Originally Posted by fatar760
What if you're sight reading music to accompany someone who is being examined, or for a singer in an audition room?

That's pretty high pressure and the pianist is highly accountable for what they play and how it affects someone else.

Can the success of it be measured? Of course, depending how happy the person you're accompanying reacts to your efforts.

Absolutely it can be measured ..... after you have attained the skill.

My point is that ..... working on sight-reading when you can barely even play sometimes is a convenient way to avoid the reality of not being able to play.

Instead of admitting you cannot play .... just shift into "getting better" mode without actually continuing to try to learn to play pieces of music and failing.

"getting better" mode can be anything the user wishes to use for it.

Some start working on blues for a bit, maybe a bit of jazz, maybe improv, maybe a new online course, .... anything will do.

I am just suggesting that since sight-reading proficiency is probably not attainable until you have had success at reading for year and years .... the sight-reading skill (popular with some beginners) may be what they are using as a diversion from the harsh reality of ...."Can you Play it or not"?


Don

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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by fatar760
What if you're sight reading music to accompany someone who is being examined, or for a singer in an audition room?

That's pretty high pressure and the pianist is highly accountable for what they play and how it affects someone else.

Can the success of it be measured? Of course, depending how happy the person you're accompanying reacts to your efforts.

Absolutely it can be measured ..... after you have attained the skill.

My point is that ..... working on sight-reading when you can barely even play sometimes is a convenient way to avoid the reality of not being able to play.

Instead of admitting you cannot play .... just shift into "getting better" mode without actually continuing to try to learn to play pieces of music and failing.

"getting better" mode can be anything the user wishes to use for it.

Some start working on blues for a bit, maybe a bit of jazz, maybe improv, maybe a new online course, .... anything will do.

I am just suggesting that since sight-reading proficiency is probably not attainable until you have had success at reading for year and years .... the sight-reading skill (popular with some beginners) may be what they are using as a diversion from the harsh reality of ...."Can you Play it or not"?

Oh, I see.

Well, it's probably important to do both: working on rep, improving the areas that need improving; and striving to improve one's reading at sight.

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