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If this is still true ...
Originally Posted by Omobono
My only explanation: young people with fine hearing, hearing a *very faint* sound coming from the ceiling. This was, of course, when the headphones were not on my head but on the carpet or very near it.
... and you buy the Sorbothane anyway, then Sorbothane makes money and you get nothing.

I think it makes sense to conduct some real testing to find the root cause of the problem. Invite the neighbors to listen carefully when you play.
Try speakers.
Try headphones.
Try setting the volume to zero (so the only sounds are the key thunks).

To summarize: For a headache you can take an aspirin. But an aspirin won't help at all if you have a strep infection.
That is: Find the actual cause before applying a solution.

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I disagree.
I don't trust this particular headache to tell me that it has gone away, ever.
But if by taking Ibuprofen I *know* the problem is solved, that's the decision made for me and well worth the price of the medicine.
This will also help with other migraines and such (at the rhythm of a new tenant every 1 or 2 years).

The causes can, as stated above, only be two: action noise, and headphones not on my head.
When both causes are taken care of, it's the end of the headache.


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Originally Posted by Omobono
Mac, I have been wondering exactly the same. My only explanation: young people with fine hearing, hearing a *very faint* sound coming from the ceiling.

If you're only making *very faint* sounds, the problem is them, and not you or your piano. Nobody has a right to neighbours who live in complete silence.

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Originally Posted by johnstaf
If you're only making *very faint* sounds, the problem is them, and not you or your piano. Nobody has a right to neighbours who live in complete silence.

The problem is that everyone has a very different opinion, and perspective, of what "very faint" or "very loud" is. Usually, the people making the noise think they're exceptionally silent, and the people hearing the noise think it's extraordinarily loud.

If the downstairs neighbors are hearing MUSIC that is too loud, then it's the speakers. If they're hearing THUMPING/THUDDING, then it's really got to be the action (or pedal, or other vibrations carrying through the ground).

Sorbothane is really good for the thumping/thudding, but I don't know how you'd address noise bleeding through from the speakers (turn down the volume? Use headphones?).


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Non sequitur. See Gombessa's post.
Originally Posted by Omobono
I disagree.
I don't trust this particular headache to tell me that it has gone away, ever.
But if by taking Ibuprofen I *know* the problem is solved, that's the decision made for me and well worth the price of the medicine.
This will also help with other migraines and such (at the rhythm of a new tenant every 1 or 2 years).

The causes can, as stated above, only be two: action noise, and headphones not on my head.
When both causes are taken care of, it's the end of the headache.

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Gombessa, you may want to read the thread from the start.

I use headphones, 100% of the time.

Johnstaf, I fully agree. The problem is them and, with your permission, I will launch into a mii rant wink

The problem is them and, whilst I believe in always trying to be accommodating and "doing unto others", I don't like them, nor the attitude, nor the whining. And I will not try to "make friends with them" merely because, in this perspective, I would want something from them (= being able to disturb them and get away with it). I want friendships to be born of affinity, not interest. I feel no affinity to those two.

I am also the kind of guy who likes, if you allow me the expression, "final solutions", not half-baked things. I don't try to compromise with problems. I try to exterminate them. In this case, I want to be able to play at 4 am, without giving it a half thought, and knowing I am not disturbing anyone; not ever, not with any piano (today a CN24, tomorrow perhaps an NV5s or a GP-510).

If it costs £200 it's fine with me, if I am sure that it works. If after that I have to spend another £200 for the right stool it's fine again, I will profit to buy a better stool, Andexinger makes beautiful stuff wink. But honestly, this is the last word I say about the neighbours, because this thread has never been about whether I should start a love offensive with them, but about the best way to achieve a certain aim: soundproofing of the action noise, if any, and even if there isn't any. We haven't quarrelled, but we haven't liked each other. If I meet them on the stair, we exchange the usual good afternoons. But I still would never knock to my neighbour for music I have heard "from his headphone, one floor down", so I smell an entitled rat here.

Still: do unto others. Therefore, I will just eliminate any noise coming from my piano, end of. If, next year, the two fatties move and a blonde stunner gets in, I promise you I might get chattier.

End of rant wink


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by johnstaf
If you're only making *very faint* sounds, the problem is them, and not you or your piano. Nobody has a right to neighbours who live in complete silence.

The problem is that everyone has a very different opinion, and perspective, of what "very faint" or "very loud" is. Usually, the people making the noise think they're exceptionally silent, and the people hearing the noise think it's extraordinarily loud.

If the downstairs neighbors are hearing MUSIC that is too loud, then it's the speakers. If they're hearing THUMPING/THUDDING, then it's really got to be the action (or pedal, or other vibrations carrying through the ground).

Sorbothane is really good for the thumping/thudding, but I don't know how you'd address noise bleeding through from the speakers (turn down the volume? Use headphones?).

The OP was using headphones, but they were too loud for the neighbours.

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Originally Posted by Omobono
rant

[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by johnstaf
The OP was using headphones, but they were too loud for the neighbours.

I would investigate this hypothesis more...I wouldn't think the volume of sound through headphones would be disturbing, whereas any other kind of noise would be unnoticed.


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Back to the topic:

I think I will go for the Roland NE-10s, as it seems to me that they are easier in the operation ( = I don't have to worry whether I have the right load). I also suspect the pads will look better. The fact that they have been created to "eat" the sound of drums pedals (I think that's some thumping, right there) is, I think, reassuring. I also like the real, physical "detachment" of the piano given by the tennis ball system. If that were to still be not enough (unlikely) then I would add the sorbothane between the NE-10s and the piano (then I would have 55mm raise and a belt an dbraces solution, total overkill I think...).

By the by: the sorbothane guy came back and he seems to think that for the noise of the action the sorbothane is overkill; he suggest a 3mm to 6mm rubber sheet, to be put under (a rug to be put under) the piano. Not a bad solution, cheaper, that might be interesting for other readers. I am not a fan because I don't like the idea of the rug, particularly a rug that goes under both the piano and the stool area.

I think I'll go for Rolands, but will sleep over it a couple of night.

Thanks to all again!


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Hi Everyone,

As we've been talking about Sorbothane, I was wondering as we've covered how to deal with full size cabinet pianos, what about a portable or stage piano on for instance a K&M stand...

Do you think that sorbothane strips placed between the stand and the stage piano would work better than sorbothane feet for the K&M stand?

Has anyone tried sorbothane feet on a K&M stand (or any other keyboard stand) before and got good results, or is it just better to prevent the vibration from getting to the stand via placing strips around the contact points where the board meets the stand?

Kind regards,

Doug.


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Hi Doug,

I've not heard of people using the strips, but there's no reason it shouldn't work. I think the key with sorbothane is to get the correct rating for the load. The feet are a bit easier because they're essentially point measurements, 4 hemispheres at 20lb each should be good for a VPC-1 (~70lb) for instance. Do the strips have ratings, and do you have to correct for cutting it down to size, etc.?

As for placement, between the DP and the stand seems to be the way to go. I suppose you could put them between the stand and the floor as well, but I imagine that would result in a more wobbly setup (and you'd need higher rated/larger blocks to account for the added weight of the stand).


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I have stayed in a modern flat as you describe and although the concrete between floors stopped a lot of noise, sound travelled through the walls, especially where the sockets were. If you were beside a socket and the upstairs neighbours were chatting right beside another (presumably directly above) you could clearly make out everything they said. This could possibly explain why they could hear your headphones, assuming that the volume was such that you couldn’t hear them while they were on the floor but your neighbours could.

You sound like a good neighbour, getting things to dampen the sound, I hope that fixes the issue.

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I find it really hard to believe your downstairs neighbours heard your headphone sound even if they were placed on the floor - my AGK headphones have a silent function for when they're taken off, but I don't leave them on the floor anyway.

My neighbour tells my she can't hear me play any more, so she was definitely hearing the percussion sound of the keyboard action. I think if you go with the Roland/Sorborthane sound deadening you've done all you can to placate your neighbours.

They might start complaining they can hear you think next though!

John


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"what about a portable or stage piano on for instance a K&M stand..."

Hi Doug,

I think the secret in this case would be to pick a stand that ends with "feet" rather than "bars". Then you have your typical "four feet arrangement" and there are many solutions for that, from the sorbothane to the piattinos (expensive) to the other rubber and sound deadening discs or balls.

I would, for this reason, avoid those stands that end with a horizontal bar touching the floor. In that case, I think the (also expensive) Roland NE-10s would be your friend.


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Originally Posted by John62
I've commented on a few threads about my neighbour below me hearing a thumping noise - I also only play using headphones.

I put four 50mm Sorborthane Hemisphere discs each side of my CA79 and my neighbour no longer hears me play.

Sorborthane Hemispheres

There is a slight rocking movement if I push on the piano but I don't notice it when playing.

Hope this helps.

John

I took a look at that site. I don't need their products, but they really have a wide range of products to offer.

Thanks for posting their link. I think their products should solve just about all thumping problems.


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I meant to post this link, but the Edit function had already expired.

Sorborthane


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Hi Doug,

I've not heard of people using the strips, but there's no reason it shouldn't work. I think the key with sorbothane is to get the correct rating for the load. The feet are a bit easier because they're essentially point measurements, 4 hemispheres at 20lb each should be good for a VPC-1 (~70lb) for instance. Do the strips have ratings, and do you have to correct for cutting it down to size, etc.?

As for placement, between the DP and the stand seems to be the way to go. I suppose you could put them between the stand and the floor as well, but I imagine that would result in a more wobbly setup (and you'd need higher rated/larger blocks to account for the added weight of the stand).

Hmm, useful info, thanks Gombessa!!
I will make sure that I read up more on Sorbothane and determine the correct rating for the weight of the MP7SE.


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Originally Posted by Omobono
"what about a portable or stage piano on for instance a K&M stand..."

Hi Doug,

I think the secret in this case would be to pick a stand that ends with "feet" rather than "bars". Then you have your typical "four feet arrangement" and there are many solutions for that, from the sorbothane to the piattinos (expensive) to the other rubber and sound deadening discs or balls.

I would, for this reason, avoid those stands that end with a horizontal bar touching the floor. In that case, I think the (also expensive) Roland NE-10s would be your friend.

Hi Omobono,

Yeah, my K&M has four feet rather than bars. The vibration apparently is quite noticeable through carpet and wooden floor boards,, so I minded to do something about it. The feet screw into the stand legs, so I was wondering if aftermarket devices could screw into the stand legs. As Gombessa says, it might destabilise the piano a bit, if the solution wobbles lol.
I'll check out piattinos. Thanks for your input!


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Quote
I think I will go for the Roland NE-10s, as it seems to me that they are easier in the operation ( = I don't have to worry whether I have the right load).

I think that would be incorrect. They are engineered to handle the load of your foot and pedal.

So like the sorbothane they will have an optimum weight rating.

At least with the sorbothane you know what the design load is.

I’d probably buy a sheet of sorbothane and cut custom strips using the info from the sorobothane data sheet on loading and size.


If you had a K&m omega stand I would think sorbothane hemispheres on the legs at the end of each bar would work fine. I think this was already mentioned before.

And if you start stacking all these products together you risk creating a low frequency resonate frequency that could make it worse.


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Thanks Purdy, I had not thought of that at all!

I have already ordered the NE-10s and at this point I am willing to risk it.

If they don't work properly, Plan B will be Sorbothane.

Thanks

Omobono


“When you play, never mind who listens to you.” ― Robert Schumann
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