2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
77 members (antune, 0day, Bill McKaig,RPT, BMKE, accordeur, 5stringbanjo, AJB, 12 invisible), 658 guests, and 309 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 9 of 12 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 12
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,112
R
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,112
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by Jethro
What I don’t understand is why people’s worlds fall apart if someone considers themselves a beginner even if they do attempt to play more advanced pieces. Based upon the recent posts in this thread you can’t win regardless of what you do. As a few have been saying it’s all relative. When compared to the concert pianist teachers I work with personally I absolutely consider myself a beginner just starting out my piano journey.

Surely it must be clear to you that you are not answering the OP's question.
Of course it's related to the OP's question. Discussing what beginner means is a part of answering when you are "beyond" it. What kind of narrow, straightjacketed response would you want instead?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by Jethro
What I don’t understand is why people’s worlds fall apart if someone considers themselves a beginner even if they do attempt to play more advanced pieces. Based upon the recent posts in this thread you can’t win regardless of what you do. As a few have been saying it’s all relative. When compared to the concert pianist teachers I work with personally I absolutely consider myself a beginner just starting out my piano journey.

Surely it must be clear to you that you are not answering the OP's question.
Of course it's related to the OP's question. Discussing what beginner means is a part of answering when you are "beyond" it. What kind of narrow, straightjacketed response would you want instead?

Per his post, the OP had the answer he needed on July 6th


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,982
S
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,982
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by Jethro
What I don’t understand is why people’s worlds fall apart if someone considers themselves a beginner even if they do attempt to play more advanced pieces. Based upon the recent posts in this thread you can’t win regardless of what you do. As a few have been saying it’s all relative. When compared to the concert pianist teachers I work with personally I absolutely consider myself a beginner just starting out my piano journey.

Surely it must be clear to you that you are not answering the OP's question.


Surely you realize that the majority of this thread is not answering the OPs question.
Yes.


Repertoire interests: early Baroque through early Romantic eras.
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,005
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,005
Originally Posted by dogperson
Per his post, the OP had the answer he needed on July 6th
Pish posh, when has that ever stopped us? 😂😂😂

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 153
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 153
9 Pages of discussion on such a silly question.

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,699
W
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,699
I was thinking...by the time this thread comes to a natural end, I might be an intermediate by then. wink

And then someone might start a thread on when are you beyond intermediate, which I think is an even more difficult question to answer.

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 07/09/21 05:17 PM.

Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,403
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,403
Originally Posted by ErfurtBob
9 Pages of discussion on such a silly question.
Come to think of it. It was kind of silly! LOL. I got involved in it because I remember someone getting so bent out of shape a few months back because I called myself a beginner. So I took the opportunity to try explain myself, but I forgot that thorough responses are sort of taboo on PW.

Last edited by Jethro; 07/09/21 05:30 PM.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,022
Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by ErfurtBob
9 Pages of discussion on such a silly question.
Come to think of it. It was kind of silly! LOL. I got involved in it because I remember someone getting so bent out of shape a few months back because I called myself a beginner. So I took the opportunity to try explain myself, but I forgot that thorough responses are sort of taboo on PW.
If there ever was a good reason to get "bent out of shape" as you so snarkly put it, it's when someone playing a Chopin Ballade calls themself a beginner. A statement very few people would agree is reasonable. But you stubbornly stick with it.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,022
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,022
The critical question is "When are you no longer a pre-beginner?

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,759
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,759
The ABF survey had absolute beginner and advanced beginner. The plot thickens ...


♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
Yamaha C3X
YouTube
[Linked Image]

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,171
Gold Subscriber
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,171
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
I was thinking...by the time this thread comes to a natural end, I might be an intermediate by then. wink

laugh laugh laugh

Quote
And then someone might start a thread on when are you beyond intermediate, which I think is an even more difficult question to answer.

Ohhhhh Nooooooooo..... cry


[Linked Image]
Yamaha C3X
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,005
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,005
I'm wondering when will I no longer be an idiot? 😂

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 79
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by ebonyk
I'm wondering when will I no longer be an idiot? 😂

When you stop reading this thread!

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 198
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 198
I also think, the RCM/ABRSM levels are a good indicator.

But for those of us, that don't do this method of learnig, there are 10 other indicators telling you ARE a beginner:

- you are afraid of black keys
- your parents are the only one giving you compliments
- your dog leaves the room when you play
- your neighbours are very often on holidays
- mirrors and window glass crack when you practise
- your youtube vid gets more downvotes than upvotes
- milk turns in the fridge
- your neighbours are moving out
- you have problems with counting


Self teaching Adult Beginner without method | Kawai CN29, Senn HD560s
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,827
R
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,827
I'm terrified!!!!

I died last week. cry When I got to the Pearly Gates, Saint Peter said I had to go back and do Penance. Specifically, he said I had to read this thread. I'm afraid I must have done something really horrible that I had forgotten about. Now, I don't want to face what awaits me when I go back. shocked

So, PLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE everyone, keep being offended, and keep posting! whistle


Ralph

Kawai VPC1
Garritan CFX
Pianist since April, 2015
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,403
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,403
Sigh, I see it’s time for a philosophical interlude as it appears a few minds are already deteriorating.

Let’s ponder a moment the wisdom of “Shoshin”. Shoshin is a word from Zen Buddhism meaning "beginner's mind." It refers to having an attitude of openness, eagerness, and lack of preconceptions when studying a subject, even when studying at an advanced level, just as a beginner would. The phrase is also discussed in the book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki, a Zen teacher. Suzuki outlines the framework behind shoshin, noting "in the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." -Wikipedia

Here’s further wisdom on the matter as it applies to music. https://www.nodeadguys.com/a-piano-blog/5-ways-musicians-can-develop-a-beginners-mind

This particular quote from that article seem’s pertinent to this thread: “If we want to know whether or not we approach music with a “beginner’s mind,” all we have to do is look at the rest of our lives. Are we quick to judge? Do we live our lives by a rigid code? How do we relate to people who are different than we are? Are we capable of a “live and let live” attitude toward ourselves and others? Because here’s the truth: if we can’t be open to new ideas and differing opinions away from the keyboard, we’ll bring that rigid way of thinking right into our music.”

So food for thought, perhaps one suck’s at piano because one is already a goddamn expert and can’t see all the possibilities? Are you open to new ideas and differing opinions? Looking at some of these posts makes me kind of wonder tsk tsk.

To the OP. Do you really want to get beyond beginner?

Last edited by Jethro; 07/10/21 03:31 AM.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Jethro
Why don’t you apply whatever level you desire to yourself, but please stop the posts that will inflame this thread to continue. It is time to stop.

I honestly find you questioning whether the OP wants to get beyond beginner condescending and inappropriate.

If you had kept up with what he is doing, and actually listened to some of his recording, you would know that he is progressing. And yes, he is new to piano, but has a positive attitude and a good work ethic.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,403
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,403
Originally Posted by dogperson
Jethro
Why don’t you apply whatever level you desire to yourself, but please stop the posts that will inflame this thread to continue. It is time to stop.

I honestly find you questioning whether the OP wants to get beyond beginner condescending and inappropriate.

If you had kept up with what he is doing, and actually listened to some of his recording, you would know that he is progressing. And yes, he is new to piano, but has a positive attitude and a good work ethic.
And if you’ve read my posts directly to him in the past year I’ve been nothing but supportive and encouraging as I am with all “beginners”. I’ve always been excited for him and anyone just getting started in this wonderful journey. I’ve noticed you pop up from time to time with no other purpose than to try to be condescending particularly to me but I just put up with it. What I wrote in the last post is something you should really try to digest. You really need to stop policing posts. Join the conversation if you want. Debate if you want. But inflaming is exactly the thing I see you doing here. No need to be difficult. No one needs to be that way. It’s just the piano. How can we be arguing about the piano?

Last edited by Jethro; 07/10/21 04:00 AM.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by dogperson
Jethro
Why don’t you apply whatever level you desire to yourself, but please stop the posts that will inflame this thread to continue. It is time to stop.

I honestly find you questioning whether the OP wants to get beyond beginner condescending and inappropriate.

If you had kept up with what he is doing, and actually listened to some of his recording, you would know that he is progressing. And yes, he is new to piano, but has a positive attitude and a good work ethic.
And if you’ve read my posts directly to him in the past year I’ve been nothing but supportive and encouraging as I am with all “beginners”. I’ve noticed you pop up from time to time with no other purpose than to try to be condescending particularly to me but I just put up with it. What I wrote in the last post is something you should really try to digest.


Digest your ‘tsk ’ ‘Tsk’ to other forum members? No thanks. I’m progressing just fine at piano without your words of wisdom.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,403
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,403
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by dogperson
Jethro
Why don’t you apply whatever level you desire to yourself, but please stop the posts that will inflame this thread to continue. It is time to stop.

I honestly find you questioning whether the OP wants to get beyond beginner condescending and inappropriate.

If you had kept up with what he is doing, and actually listened to some of his recording, you would know that he is progressing. And yes, he is new to piano, but has a positive attitude and a good work ethic.
And if you’ve read my posts directly to him in the past year I’ve been nothing but supportive and encouraging as I am with all “beginners”. I’ve noticed you pop up from time to time with no other purpose than to try to be condescending particularly to me but I just put up with it. What I wrote in the last post is something you should really try to digest.


Digest your ‘tsk ’ ‘Tsk’ to other forum members? No thanks. I’m progressing just fine at piano without your words of wisdom.
Well then I see the message got across to one of the right persons. I read your posts. I like them. You offer a lot of good info and they are interesting. I’m always kind to you. Can you be the same to me?

Page 9 of 12 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 12

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Is a CPT necessary?
by Petoskeyguy - 08/13/22 11:07 AM
Yamaha clp 785 horrible chorus effect
by Chrisgilx - 08/13/22 10:51 AM
How are you learning?
by bennevis - 08/13/22 09:41 AM
Here am and a little help
by Mayopapayo - 08/13/22 07:14 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics214,377
Posts3,215,993
Members106,078
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5