2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
48 members (beginagain, An Old Square, 36251, anotherscott, ChrisMH, APianistHasNoName, 10 invisible), 600 guests, and 453 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 101
C
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 101
Or only from individual core score? These specs are always too general.

Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 84
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 84
There was a conversation on the Pianoteq forum, how to install Pianoteq on a Raspberry Pi 4...
Most important things to do are enabling all cpu cores for Pianoteq and set the cpu frequency to maximum.

Pianoteq definitely benefits from more cores.


keep calm and play the piano :-)
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 84
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 84
I didn't find the conversation, but I found the instructions:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uYW5p3675RZheZQqyLuTiGStu3xxcNAQ/view

There is meanwhile an easier way to install Pianoteq on Raspberry Pi 4 though...


keep calm and play the piano :-)
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,961
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,961
Originally Posted by Christopher90
Or only from individual core score? These specs are always too general.

Yes Pianoteq takes full advantage of additional cores, but also yes, it's not so obvious what's going on.

I'm running Pianoteq on the Odroid N2+ where I can assign the 6 cores to Pianoteq and I was able to play around with the core assignments to get a better idea of how it worked. For reference, the N2+ has 6x cores: 2x low-performance and 4x high-performance cores. Here's what I found out.

Assigning Pianoteq to a single core.
The Pianoteq performance index reflects the performance of a single core. It doesn't matter if I assign Pianoteq to 1 or all cores, I get the same Performance Index number. In the case of the N2+ if I assign Pianoteq to 1 of the low-performance cores I get a ptq index of 20, and for a high-performance core 34 (38 if overclocked). If I assign Pianoteq to all 6 cores, the ptq index will show 20...34. You may also see dual ptq indexes on computers with hyper-threading, with the virtual hyper-threaded cores showing a lower ptq index.

Assigning Pianoteq to more cores will do two things:
1. It will stabilize/peg the Pianoteq Index (blue line) to the top of the graph so it doesn't fluctuate. The blue line represents the CPU power available to Pianoteq. You want this blue line pegged to the top of the graph - and you can get that by either assigning more cores to Pianoteq or getting rid of unnecessary background processes that eat CPU cycles. If you see wide fluctuation in the blue line, this means that the estimated available CPU power / overhead is being used up by other programs. Mainly you don't want the blue PTQ index to drop below the audio load (orange graph) - causing dropouts.

2. Extra cores will also help keep the orange audio load graph in check when there are spikes in CPU usage (e.g. lots of notes/sustain/bass/dynamics etc.). When I'm only running PTQ on 1 core, the orange audio load will easily spike under normal conditions causing cpu overload/dropouts - and by spike I mean the orange graph will spike above the blue ptq index line. But when I assign Pianoteq to more cores, it is able to do a better job of keep the orange audio load graph from spiking - even if I'm forcing the dynamics, sustain polyphony etc. For example, on the N2+, using 1 high-performance core, it will easily spike at polyphony of around 32-64. With 4x cores I can easily push the polyphony up to 128++ without any dropouts/cpu overloads - the orange audio graph will easily stay low and level.

ARM little.BIG cores
On some ARM computers with little.BIG cores (low and high performance cores) - the audio load and ptq index blue line can become very fragile/brittle when the OS switches between the low and high performance cores. It results in the blue line fluctuating and the orange audio load graph quickly spiking. On those computers where this is a problem - it helps to assign just the high-performance cores to Pianoteq and leave the low-performance cores for the OS.

How many cores is the limit?
I'm not sure how many cores are the point of diminishing returns. I can tell you that on the N2+ with 6 cores, Pianoteq will utilize all the cores. On the system monitor (htop) - I can see the main Pianoteq application has a single dedicated thread on 1x core and then 1-2 child audio threads assigned to each of the other cores.

Keep in mind that the Raspberry Pi and N2+ are at the bottom of the Pianoteq CPU threshold (so it's a good place to see the results of using more cores). But even my old dual core 2015 MacBook Air has more than enough single-core power to easily handle anything I can throw at it without any issues on playback.


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
If only it were true that using more cores could make Pianoteq sound more like a piano!

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 101
C
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If only it were true that using more cores could make Pianoteq sound more like a piano!
Maybe more cores allow to press the pedal and layer more notes...

Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 440
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 440
You want to play a Liszt piece perhaps? That makes sense then. For average piano beginner or intermediate level, 2 cores with freq set to moderate value is fine and lowers power consumption too.

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 101
C
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 101
Something doesn't add up. It doesn't seem like you could get that much improvement with a single-core without spending a fortune:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread_value.html

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,501
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,501
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If only it were true that using more cores could make Pianoteq sound more like a piano!

I just been trying out the U4 upright.
Yamaha do not make a U4, so I assume it is an extrapolation of that which would transpire should they do, in the forseeable future.
It's really really good! Better than the Steinway, better than the Bechstein, or their latest, the Petrof 284 or whatever.
Better even, than the B1 silent I am/was thinking of buying.
It is a complex sound.
But what do I know?(shrug) me, a lowly Brit from the wrong end o' town . .:) .

Last edited by peterws; 06/24/21 05:24 AM.

"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 469
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 469
Originally Posted by peterws
I just been trying out the U4 upright.
Yamaha do not make a U4, so I assume it is an extrapolation of that which would transpire should they do, in the forseeable future.
It's really really good! Better than the Steinway, better than the Bechstein, or their latest, the Petrof 284 or whatever.
Better even, than the B1 silent I am/was thinking of buying.
It is a complex sound.
But what do I know?(shrug) me, a lowly Brit from the wrong end o' town . .:) .

With the B1 you can live in, and smoothly move between, two worlds. I can recommend a silent piano. Have been playing one for more than a year so far.

Lowly Brit? I didn't know that was possible. I thought all Brits were Great smile

Last edited by pianogabe; 06/24/21 05:32 AM. Reason: spelling
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,565
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,565
My belief about this matter has always been that Pianoteq does ‘better’ with single core @ higher clock speeds instead of multiple cores @ lower clock speeds, but things might’ve changed since I last checked.

What I do know for certain is that no sampled piano performs better than Pianoteq under stress (lowly spec’d computer). Pianoteq, if you tweak a bit, can run on a 1980’s computer; can VSL do that? No!


Disclaimer: “1980’s computer” is used symbolically; please be advised that I cannot be held responsible if you go and actually buy a “1980’s” computer and things don’t go as planned.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
What's all the fuss? Pianoteq runs on just about anything.

If it doesn't run properly (because you're using a computer from the days of George Washington), then you need a new computer. And not just because of Pianoteq.

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 101
C
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 101
I never saw an answer to what's the recommended specs for Garritan and Pianoteq.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Originally Posted by Christopher90
I never saw an answer to what's the recommended specs for Garritan and Pianoteq.
Pianoteq: Any computer.
Garritan: Any computer with an SSD.

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,961
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,961
Originally Posted by Pete14
My belief about this matter has always been that Pianoteq does ‘better’ with single core @ higher clock speeds instead of multiple cores @ lower clock speeds ...

I think this is technically still true. There is a small performance cost associated with distributing threads across multiple cores. But modern CPU performance far exceeds what Pianoteq needs, so you'll never notice the difference in real life.

Intel's bottom-of-the-barrel, entry-level 4-core CPU, the Celeron J4125, runs Pianoteq fine. You can buy a Celeron J4125 computer for US$200. If you're playing advanced pieces, maybe go a little higher up the CPU ladder to an i3 or i5 (or equivalent AMD cpu). Many people are running Pianoteq on a Raspberry Pi and the J4125 is easily 2-3x faster.


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,565
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,565
Thank you.

I just noticed a 4-core Celeron J4125 running @2.7Ghz, 6GB RAM, and SSD. The ‘computer’ is tiny (about the size of a Rubik’s cube), and can be mounted behind a monitor (VESA); all this for under $200.

Would this computer suffice for Pianoteq7 running at full throttle (high polyphony, multiple mics, etc.)?

Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 490
V
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Originally Posted by Christopher90
I never saw an answer to what's the recommended specs for Garritan and Pianoteq.
Pianoteq: Any computer.
Garritan: Any computer with an SSD.
Both companies have "recommended specs" in their websites. If you don't want to believe their recommendations, why would you believe the recommendations of others?

I have already told you a couple of times that - for windows machines and my small experience - specs are meaningless because some hardware/drivers are just bad... Both PT and CFX work very well in my 2015 low spec laptop, and very bad in my 2020 mid spec laptop.

Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 490
V
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 490
I tried a very old celeron (2 or 4 gb ram, cannot remember) and it struggled. But it was a cpu well worse than the j4125. If you can order and return the computer, it is worth a shot. My feeling is that it will be good enough for low polyphony. For pianoteq SSD is not necessary.

Last edited by vagfilm; 06/24/21 08:36 AM.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,501
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,501
Originally Posted by pianogabe
Originally Posted by peterws
I just been trying out the U4 upright.
Yamaha do not make a U4, so I assume it is an extrapolation of that which would transpire should they do, in the forseeable future.
It's really really good! Better than the Steinway, better than the Bechstein, or their latest, the Petrof 284 or whatever.
Better even, than the B1 silent I am/was thinking of buying.
It is a complex sound.
But what do I know?(shrug) me, a lowly Brit from the wrong end o' town . .:) .

With the B1 you can live in, and smoothly move between, two worlds. I can recommend a silent piano. Have been playing one for more than a year so far.

Lowly Brit? I didn't know that was possible. I thought all Brits were Great smile

The Scots Welsh and Irish might be, but nobody likes the English!
Don't much care for 'em myself either . . .

Last edited by peterws; 06/24/21 09:00 AM.

"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,961
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,961
Originally Posted by Pete14
Thank you.

I just noticed a 4-core Celeron J4125 running @2.7Ghz, 6GB RAM, and SSD. The ‘computer’ is tiny (about the size of a Rubik’s cube), and can be mounted behind a monitor (VESA); all this for under $200.

Would this computer suffice for Pianoteq7 running at full throttle (high polyphony, multiple mics, etc.)?

I would avoid the computers with this form factor (photo below). Reviews mentioned that the heat-sink was only ok and many times didn't work effectively, so the fan was constantly going on/off and the CPU would throttle down to avoid overheating. Plus the boot disk is eMMC - similar in speed to a microSD card you might find in a digital camera - so it's much slower in terms of boot time.

[Linked Image]

I'd take a look at the J4125 computers with this form factor (below). Per reviews - the heat sink actually does it's job and it boots from an SSD which is much faster. This particular form factor is marketed under the model number GK3 or GK3V. Some factory in China probably makes the base model - but you'll find the GK3/GK3V model sold under different brand names (for example this one is branded under Terryza). It is also small enough to VESA mount on the back of a monitor.

[Linked Image]


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai VPC-1 or Roland A88 MKII (or FP30X)?
by detektorosradio - 12/08/21 06:03 PM
Birdcage Piano Tuner needed in Virginia
by zander35 - 12/08/21 04:45 PM
Another "Which Midi Controller Should I Buy"
by cody.carrig - 12/08/21 04:05 PM
Chopin's Polonaise 26/2 and staccato duration
by Mati - 12/08/21 04:04 PM
How good is a Chickering 105 B concert grand?
by tommyhaha - 12/08/21 02:34 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,462
Posts3,151,652
Members103,560
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5