Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner - Non Classical A Psychologist’s Take on Mental Health for Musicians

dpcjazz and xxoxferretxox--to be completely clear--people with mental/emotional problems, may seek out the arts as a "profession", but that does not mean that they have any ability, not does it mean that they get any positive effects from being in that field.

It may be that they find a certain level of acceptance, or a milieu that feels better than another field. After all, art may be whatever a person says it is. Accounting, not so much.

And again, and I can't stress this enough, there are plenty of people who do not have any mental illness who, for whatever reason (pure cussedness), will not accept anyone else's advice or opinions, and so drift into a field where "individuality" counts more than in, say, banking. Again, this does not mean that they actually have any talent.

hmm--am I describing myself???---nah.

all this talk is circling around the "conceptual" and "performance" artists.

and btw--does xoxferretxox have ferrets? does dogperson have dogs? both so cool.

Dogperson had a long-lived dog that died two weeks ago. Now, I just have a spoiled young cat. I promise myself that I will not get another dog but I doubt if I will end up keeping that promise Since I’ve always had at least one.. ... a young one just takes a ton of work but I’m sure a needy rescue will show up 🐶

dogperson, my condolences. I've had 3 beloved dogs die, and they were traumatic events. I doubt that I will get another at my age.

2 of mine were adopted at ages past puppyhood. Older dogs need homes too.

all 3 were too small to reach the keyboard.

I am certain that the madness of my music keeps me sane in life. Mapping the landscape of my lifelong psyche, in all its beauty and horror, onto abstract sound in acts of spontaneous creation transcends any other experience I know. The correlation between artistic creation and mental illness therefore saddens and puzzles me. The evidence cannot be disputed but I wish it were not so and I am very grateful that having the right family and teachers, being good enough at something else for a living, and perhaps a certain perversity of artistic taste, have so far spared me these consequences.

Ted[I am very grateful that having the right family and teachers, being good enough at something else for a living, and perhaps a certain perversity of artistic taste, have so far spared me these consequences.]
So true Ted the right family and teachers and being good enough at something else for a living. I have all of those and of course a certain perversity of artistic taste. I remember the time at my restaurant Bobby Shew the great trumpet player was sitting at table ten enjoying the music and me being the owner went up to him and ask if he was enjoying himself. He said I know who you are David and I really like your tamales well it wasn't the musical compliment I was looking for but hey with the food,the restaurant, the family it was the best compliment I could of gotten. I remember when Lucas Pino the sax player was at the restaurant playing a gig before he left, I ask him why do you come here to play with us and he said [ man you let me eat a steak for my meal] so there again not the musical compliment I was looking for but still quite rewarding. I use to bribe certain musicians with a doz red tamales on top of their pay they never said no to my call.
Ted if I remember you mostly improvise your music how is it going?

Thank you for asking, it is going very well. The decision, fifteen years ago, to embrace recorded, free improvisation as my principal creative medium has proved exactly the right choice for me. It was precipitated by many things: my retirement, the availability of relatively cheap, high quality recording devices, hearing the solo concerts of Jarrett, realising that my large heap of compositions, although not bad were essentially derivative, rhythmically hidebound by notation and music of the past. There is nothing iconoclastic about me, I play and listen to classical most days, and my infatuation with ragtime appears indestructible, but a truly creative temperament must pursue his own dream, not the dreams of others or what other people say he ought to be doing.

I doubt I would be playing at all at seventy-three without my Virgil Practice Clavier, a truly marvellous device, which I hope will preserve my technique for many years yet. My recordings, at the last count, comprise around six hundred hours and I try to make at least two or three a week. I couldn’t bear standing musically still, and unless each session reaches out in some way I feel it to be a partial failure.

I have to say that my immersion in music is such a positive thing on my life. I would be lost without it. Becoming a jazz musician is the structure of my life. I play piano and bass. Right now I have an excellent private teacher. I look at other people who are about to retire, and they seem lost as to how they are going to spend their time.

Music is what I am going to be doing more of once I finally "retire" from my day job in less than a year, which actually is in the field of clinician for mental health. My day job as a health care worker causes more stress and anxiety than anything that has ever happened to me in the music world, whether during the process of getting a music degree , playing out, and learning from teachers. My job is very social and involves close interaction with others, so practicing is a great balance to that. No, not bipolar and not depressed. Actually, lock downs, etc. were easy to deal with because it allowed for more time in the practice room. As I have gotten older, I like having time to myself to practice and listen, and but I also immensely enjoy playing out, having gigs. One of the biggest joys of life.

I have spent a lot of time at another music site and it just seems that the happiest musical people are those who have a day job, and hopefully a day job they like, and are weekend warriors, when gigs are possible, taking the pandemic into account and reduced gigs. Sometimes a former full time musician will say that have had enough and choose the relative monetary security of a day job. Or have a lucrative part-time job that makes involvement in music possible.

I agree, it is really tough to be a full time musician in any genre. And especially tough in the past year or so.

Getting heavy man.

I think that anything you do for a living is stressful, because you can't afford not to--that's stress right there. And the more and heavier the responsibility, the more stress. And if you want to keep your job, you've got to perform to at least the minimum requirements. If you want to rise higher, you work harder and network, schmooze, and apply grease. Ugh. And all the time the level of risk rises.

I'm retired, 30 years at a low-level data pushing job. Answered to one person at a time, never had to face the public, except in a previous life as pro musician. I've never felt better, nor played better.

Having played every day for 65 years (except for about 5 years in late teens/early 20s), I would go nuts without playing. So I play, ANYTIME I WANT. My house is about 100 feet away from my nearest neighbor, I could play at 3 am if I were awake then.

For those of you who are about to retire, this could be your most productive and satisfying time of your life. Or not, if you liked other things better--like working lol.

Hey, I can totally relate to what you're going through. It's tough when life gets overwhelming and our passions take a backseat. When I faced a similar situation, I found it helpful to take small steps towards getting back into playing the piano. Start with short practice sessions and gradually increase the time. Don't put too much pressure on yourself and focus on enjoying the process. It's also important to take care of your mental well-being.

BenSilver quote
{focus on enjoying the process}
Can't agree more I still have the desire to play and in front of people but I no longer have the panic or anxiety attacks that I usually experienced and sharing my playing is bringing me JOY.

quote
{ It's also important to take care of your mental well-being}

So true

There are 2 groups of people who play music: the ones who do it for a living and people like myself who play as a hobby. Even belonging to a music group, there would be a lot of pressure to practice constantly and keep up. At the same time we're not doing it for the money so at least there is no financial stress.

Otherwise music is supposed to be for brain health to guard against dementia & depression. Playing music can be an enjoyable activity as long as there is no stress of keeping up playing technical repertoire like a solo in a concerto.

If you're struggling, don't hesitate to seek support from friends, family, or even a https://mentalhealthhotline.org/. Remember, your love for music will always be there for you, and taking care of yourself is just as important.

I totally agree that mental health in the music industry is something we need to talk about more openly. Musicians often put so much of themselves into their work, and it's crucial that they have the support and resources they need.

I recently read Audition by Michael Shurtleff. It is about acting, but much of it is applicable to music as well. He says that actors are all insane, because nobody sane would go into it, and he advocates embracing your insanity, because that is what makes you stand out.

It is an old book, written 45 years ago, but I recommend it highly!

I suppose I could be border-line depressed. I don't think I am bipolar or anything close to that. My goal was to play the piano for a church, preferably the type of church I was raised in. I am over 70 and I don't play in church very often; actually once since last Christmas. My wife wants to stay with the church we attend now. I don't know if there is anything anybody could tell me. I don't play at the house every day but sometimes I take maybe 30 minutes or an hour to make a few videos of my playing. My wife doesn't understand why I play the same piece several times to get it like I want it. Others who record their playing may have a similar situation.

BDB quote [he advocates embracing your insanity, because that is what makes you stand out]

CWT quote [I suppose I could be border-line depressed] [I don't know if there is anything anybody could tell me] [My wife doesn't understand why I play the same piece several times to get it like I want it]
I just turned 70 had a stroke 9 years ago, open heart surgery last April, retired from my restaurant August 2019 the place where I did most my playing and networking, the church I played at the pastor retired suddenly and they needed people to play. I normally played offertory twice a month and they cancel that because of COVID and wanted me to try praise and worship what a train wreck that turn out to be. I tried it for a year and then let it go what a relief that was. Border-line DEPRESSED might be a bit of an understatement. The last thing I would assume to tell you anything but it sure sounds like a couple things you stated needed to be address.
I recorded my music for the last 40 years and now I share it

AniyahNielse quote[Musicians often put so much of themselves into their work, and it's crucial that they have the support and resources they need.] So true


https://www.youtube.com/@davidvaldivia5194

I hope your retirement is going well. Thank you for your service to people in your career! My career was as a teacher, ending with highly needy children from tough environments - and definitely piano has helped me distance myself from the issues I couldn't solve or even slightly affect (i.e., family circumstances).

I hope you're finding places to play publicly, even if it's only open mics or the piano at your local airport, hotel, or hospital!

This explanation should not be taken seriously. I read in a book by Stanislavsky that an actor acts on stage in a state of some split personality, when one is an artistic image, and the other is the actor himself, controls the first, creating the necessary balance between personalities. However, for one reason or another, sometimes the balance is disturbed, the artistic image takes over, and the actor cannot get out of the image. This is where the psychological and mental problems begin.
About a musician, or rather a singer, who goes crazy on the basis of a passionate desire to be a cantor, Sholem Aleichem's story The nightingale, or, The saga of Yosele Solovey the cantor was written.

Nahum quote [ However, for one reason or another, sometimes the balance is disturbed, the artistic image takes over, and the actor cannot get out of the image. This is where the psychological and mental problems begin.
I remember George C Scott took his role so seriously that after playing PATTON his family was so tired of him walking and talking like he was really the general they beg him to get help.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-sep-24-mn-13484-story.html
In his real life, Scott had his demons. His boozing and brawling were legendary for much of his life--his famous nose was broken five times. Scott’s off-screen fury and unpredictable behavior sometimes shocked his co-stars (British actor Nicol Williamson once remarked, “It’s quite staggering, the degree of his self-loathing”). When he worked with Scott on Broadway in 1973 in “Uncle Vanya,” Williamson noted: “He’s the most lauded actor in America, and the most highly paid, and he’s a tortured man, given to outbursts of rage and extraordinary behavior.”

BILL EVANS
https://robtryan.com/2016/11/16/everybody-digs-bill-evans-composer-of-the-week/
Yet Evans is not a universally familiar name outside the jazz ghetto, the way Miles, Brubeck, Coltrane or Ellington is, even though Bill is the backbone of an album you very likely own – even if you hate jazz – Miles Davis’s Kind of Blue.
Despite being pivotal to that record’s development and sound, Evans is not an icon of cool like Miles. He wasn’t a snappy dresser (dark suit, white shirt, tie) and for most of his life he looked like George McFly, as played by Crispin Glover in Back to the Future. Miles would strike photogenic poses; the bespectacled Bill would hunch awkwardly over the keyboard, cigarette drooping from his mouth, as if trying to locate a soft heartbeat from within the piano.

With Evans, image is nothing. It’s all about the sublime music, his achingly lyrical introspection, the way he can take a well-worn, familiar theme and give it a tension and beauty that at times are unbearable, perhaps all the more if the listener knows that
his personal history is coloured, like so many jazz stories, by tragedy: early death, squandered talent, hustled cash, hard drugs, cheated wives, suicide and racial tension all play a crucial role in his tale.

Its not that hard to understand when you pick a career in music or any of the arts just take care of yourself and when you need to ask for help get it.

This was my career, a lifetime. Just wanted to say that depressioon CAN be treated. If you can't handle it your own way, the meds work. They take between 3-5 weeks (aveage) to show visible signs and there are further gains after this. The right med, the right dose, taken consistently. Ther can be a horrible waiting game where the person needs help right away and get's impatient and concludes "the drugs don't work".
I have seen people in the real spirals. I won't go into details but I will say it can be profound and these people need someone with them all the time. Yes, these people can get better, they DO get better, all of the time. It's really good to see people back, what's more they don't even remember your contributions, even if you put spoon to mouth! But hey...