2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Week Deals
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
74 members (An Old Square, 36251, Bellicapelli, bobrunyan, Abdol, b4xter, 25 invisible), 702 guests, and 451 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 63
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by Pete14
I understand this topic has ended, “end of topic”, but if I may be allowed one observation post-closure:

Are we still saying that a ‘real’ grand action is inherently better than a ‘fake’ digital piano action even when the former was not designed to trigger samples via rubber/optical sensors, but rather to set a wooden hammer into motion and subsequently pounding the heck out of a string?

I think this topic warrants more in-depth study!
Somebody’s a troublemaker.
grin

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,184
A
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,184
Originally Posted by ambrozy
Digital actions don't have to propel real hammers and lift real dampers so yeah, they should be better
I don't see where the part after the comma logically follows the part before. Why *should* they be better? Especially considering that one of the biggest things that gives you the feel and control of an acoustic piano is that you are actually throwing mass?

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
I think I smell a troll.

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 395
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 395
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by ambrozy
Digital actions don't have to propel real hammers and lift real dampers so yeah, they should be better
I don't see where the part after the comma logically follows the part before. Why *should* they be better? Especially considering that one of the biggest things that gives you the feel and control of an acoustic piano is that you are actually throwing mass?

Because in acoustic piano, action has to propel a hammer of certain mass to certain speed to make a proper sound and lift a damper of certain mass and at the same time giving good feeling and control for the player and this implies compromises. Digital action only has to feel good and give good control and there are no restrictions here on hammer weight, action ratio, key dip etc...

But in reality typical digital piano action is made of stamped steel sheet, injection molded plastic, rubber domes as sensors (what is it? a piano or a tv remote?) yeah I'm being sarcastic but I'm not talking that those design choices and manufacturing methods are inherently bad, but they are the cheapest possible way to do it and this is a fact. If you want anything extra, you have to pay a lot more for it.

There is a topic where I've done some analysis of Kawai VPC1 action (someone was trying to do some modifications to lighten this action):
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3073511/1.html

For example, the hammers of the black keys are lightened down quite a bit to compensate for the low front weight of the black keys, so the static weight of the black and white keys was not too different. By doing that this way they don't have to install additional weights in front of black keys, side effect is that moment of inertia is different for blacks and whites, but most likely slight compensation in software (different velocity curve for blacks and whites) is doing the trick and average user won't feel the difference.

Last edited by ambrozy; 05/24/21 08:07 PM.
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 74
1
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
1
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 74
Just in passing I will mention this Chinese YouTube video:



I'm guessing not everyone watches that many Chinese video but I was looking for anything that compare FP-10/P45/CDP-S100 and you can kind of follow most of his comparative analysis. I know the previously mooted suggestion of stacked coins for testing action is considered even worse than proper "piano weights" but in terms of giving a "comparative measure" (which clearly shows the FP-10 as considerably "heavier" than the other two to achieve "note on" action) I thought the technique was quite interesting.

EDIT: Ah the link I pasted should actually have gone straight to about 300 seconds (05:00) in where he tests the key weights but I see the pianoworld software ignores the "?t=302" parameter on the URL. So jump straight to about 05:00 to see the weight testing.

Last edited by 1903wrightflyer; 05/25/21 03:26 AM.
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Working while pregnant
by Elsbels - 12/07/21 07:41 AM
Improve sound of Casiotone CT-S1
by Charline - 12/07/21 07:28 AM
Which pedals are compatible with Yamaha P-515?
by Olie222 - 12/07/21 05:32 AM
Constant instrument hopping: the recorder
by meghdad - 12/07/21 04:39 AM
Es920 production stopped??
by playplayplay - 12/07/21 12:07 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,425
Posts3,151,145
Members103,545
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5