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#3117583 05/14/21 03:39 PM
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Hello everyone,

I am desperately looking for a good deal for CVP-809 PE. What is a good price for CVP 809 PE in the US? The lowest price I have seen is with Sweetwater which is $11,000.

It's so expensive here in US. I tried to called some of music stores in Vietnam, a CVP PE 809 only costs $6k.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Justin

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Here in France, 9500€, roughly $11,500.


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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Here in France, 9500€, roughly $11,500.
That's really high price.

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Don't pay the dealer's price. Instead, make an offer.

Also ... I wouldn't buy a large, heavy piano online. Visit a dealer instead.

Also ... are you sure you want the CVP model? Yamaha makes better pianos for less money.
With a CVP model you're paying many, many thousands of dollars for the bells and whistles (accompaniment features).
IMO, it's grotesquely overpriced. They make the same piano without those features (CLP785) for half the price.

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I doubt Sweetwater has a path to negotiate, but if you do find some brick & mortar dealer, I'd suggest you call them up and offer what you're willing to pay (similar to Mac's suggestion). This is not a widely sought after model and most dealers will be open to pricing this to sell. I wish you the best in trying to find a deal.

Since you mentioned you were desperate, I'm just curious to know more about your use case - what's the piano's intended purpose? This model is not a very popular one for most piano needs...


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Since the CVP models are on limited backorder, and may not be in for a long time, and demand is high - I doubt dealers will have ANY incentive to negotiate price. If price is an issue, the suggestion for the CLP 785 is a good one.

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CVP models are never in high demand.
Originally Posted by Alcyone
Since the CVP models are on limited backorder, and may not be in for a long time, and demand is high - I doubt dealers will have ANY incentive to negotiate price. If price is an issue, the suggestion for the CLP 785 is a good one.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
CVP models are never in high demand.
Originally Posted by Alcyone
Since the CVP models are on limited backorder, and may not be in for a long time, and demand is high - I doubt dealers will have ANY incentive to negotiate price. If price is an issue, the suggestion for the CLP 785 is a good one.

Mac is quite correct.

Top end Arrangers are usually built for a tiny market of insanely wealthy people and really top professionals. .
The Yamaha Genos being an example.

When top end electone were built in the eighties, prices for the full pedal board versions were about £12,000. Virtually nobody brought them. They were there in the showroom for aspirational purposes. The only time I heard one played properly was by professionals.

The idea to mix the digital piano concept with the electone to create the CVP range has been successful at the affordable end. Similarly, 9/10ths of the arranger keyboard sales are lower end models.

Now, you can pick up a 1990's top end electone organ eg EL90 for £200. That's what I call depreciation.

Similarly, top end CVP models won't hold their RRP price. A decade later, and your £11,000 model maybe worth at best £4,000. Two decades and it's probably worth £400.

With arranger technology, the top end models will always command silly prices. Take this Badboy home why don't you, it's only €33,000:


Last edited by Doug M.; 05/16/21 02:43 AM.

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A band in a box, such an outdated and overpriced concept!

That video -above- looks like something that would’ve been tacky even by 1980’s standards.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
A band in a box, such an outdated and overpriced concept!

That video -above- looks like something that would’ve been tacky even by 1980’s standards.


In the UK and US, there is no electone style organ market. Apparently, it's still going in Germany and parts of Asia. Guess not everyone there is too hooked on video games...

On the video lol....
You may think so, but I couldn't possibly comment 🤨


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I call for a CVP Demolition Derby!


This might sound excessive but hear me out:

Some of you might remember the ‘Disco Demolition’ event where a mass demolition of all things Disco took place to symbolize the end of Disco. No, not all disco-music was destroyed but enough attention was garnered from the event to send a clear message that this era was over!

The same should be done with the CVP and other models (Genos, Electone, etc) to send a clear message to manufacturers that we don’t want these anymore than we want disco music!

Disco Sucks! laugh


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Originally Posted by Pete14
I call for a CVP Demolition Derby!

...

The same should be done with the CVP and other models (Genos, Electone, etc) to send a clear message to manufacturers that we don’t want these anymore than we want disco music!

Disco Sucks! laugh
...

Just when I thought I should start a nightclub with just a CVP-809. Man, you demolished my plans.

By now, OP might have been discouraged - but I do want to hear him/her out - like what's the intended use of the CVP? Maybe it's the only model that works for them.

I'm sure for non-arranger needs, there are better and much cheaper models (even a hybrid).


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I've had a CVP for almost 15 years and use the arranger feature to make small adjustments to MIDI files. I also like to play around with a lot of the voices, and play impromptu stuff for fun using 10 or 20 of the rhythm tracks plus accompaniment mode. Nieces and nephews enjoy going through all those things too, moreso than me.

The 407 I got was new for about 75% of the MSRP, and unfortunately prices have gone up a lot over the years and they got rid of the X07 models. So I probably won't be getting a CVP next time. Maybe a Kawai, maybe a CLP.

I will miss some of the CVP features though. Perhaps its time I hook up to a laptop or tablet and start running things that way.

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With a smartphone (or a tablet), you have iReal Pro which I like. The chord grid must be entered in advanced (which free your left hand which can play some broken chords instead of just plated chords).

You don’t have 500+ styles, but I found the app worth its price. I can be handy with Bluetooth DP like nowadays CLP.


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Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by Pete14
I call for a CVP Demolition Derby!

...

The same should be done with the CVP and other models (Genos, Electone, etc) to send a clear message to manufacturers that we don’t want these anymore than we want disco music!

Disco Sucks! laugh
...

Just when I thought I should start a nightclub with just a CVP-809. Man, you demolished my plans.

By now, OP might have been discouraged - but I do want to hear him/her out - like what's the intended use of the CVP? Maybe it's the only model that works for them.

I'm sure for non-arranger needs, there are better and much cheaper models (even a hybrid).


Lol,

Band in a box is kind of what Electone's style organs aren't, weirdly: the only similarity between the CVP and the Electones are the pre-programmed auto-accompaniments, as organ playing is a completely different style of playing to piano. Only beginners play with accompaniment patterns on electones: they've always been the lame part of the deal. Yes, one does sound rather like a high-tech version of the one-man-band guy when relying on preset-accompaniment on any of the arranger instruments types. I guess that's the same with the CVP pianos and Tyros/Genos instruments too. However, they do have impressive sequencers, and Yamaha's backing tracks to piano pieces are not bad too.

Electone organs however, these are skillful instruments to learn to play properly. Here is an example: the winner at the Yamaha Thailand Music Festival 2017. Each time you see the little lights flash between the manuals, he's changing the sounds/set-up with the knee operated registration switch and/or a swell pedal switch.




This style of organ playing has been going since way before I started. I recall a 20 year old Martin Harris back in 1989---who had been practicing behind the curtain for 30 mins before the gig to start fully warmed up---who opened with a 16 track fully sequenced Orchestral arrangement of the Theme to Superman. Those were the days when he was going to international competitions. Basically, he'd sequenced the tracks for most of the instruments himself ---like you might do with a computer or workstation (storing them on the new 3.14Mb non-floppy floppy disc)---and then scored the most difficult arrangement for the hands and feet he could manage. Ok, that bit was only part skill, part programmed, but it was all self-programmed, and the arrangements were professional standard.

The audience was very impressed in 1989. Then he explained what he'd done and promised not to use the sequencer again for the evening. It didn't make that much difference, as every piece he played sounded like he was playing in a competition.

What followed was no prearranged rhythms and no traditional organ style arrangements at all. The left-hand and feet were as active as his right hand. In fact, often the left & right hands took turns on the two manuals of the HX1, with some advanced organ work involving cross-over hands on the two manuals.

That instrument cost £12,000 new and sounds like this:



Now they're worth about £50.

With regards to proper electone method, it's a skill equally as difficult as piano, and to be able to do both, flipping between the CLP piano and organ with equally high-levels of dexterity and artistry was quite impressive.

I picked on the Wersi to outline how expensive the top models are, not really because of the player---who is definitely only a quite good at it. I found a lot of Robert Bartha's stuff---after skimming through a few YouTube videos (to see what you get for E33,000) ---quite hammed up and sentimental. Not my cup of tea. However, his version of Mason William's Classical Gas was ok.

The problem with the Tyros and the Genos is that with only one manual, and no pedals, there is a limit to how much you can do just with your own two hands. These are the band-in-a-box instruments that people use to take on cruise ships, or play in weddings. The sounds are unquestionably all excellent; however, Tyros/Genos instruments only sound impressive when you use the sequencer in my opinion (turning off the auto-accompaniment).

@ JustinPh
With that in mind, if I wished to have CVP abilities on my MP7SE, I'd just purchase a better computer and buy the sequencing software etc. If you wanted to buy the Yamaha pre-sequenced music scores for the backing tracks (so you don't have to arrange your own scores), I'd pick up a have decent used Tyros and control it from the digital piano---much cheaper than picking up a top spec CVP.

Last edited by Doug M.; 05/16/21 10:53 AM.

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You make a compelling argument, Doug, and for that I have removed the Electone from the demolition list.

The CVP, Genos, and Tyros will remain on the list unless compelling evidence of their worthiness is brought forth.

I’ve given the CVP several opportunities to come down from that high horse (price) but it has ignored me, and at this point I highly doubt it will be able to redeem itself.

And please, do not show me the “Star Wars” performance again because this will only make it worse for the CVP!

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Originally Posted by Pete14
You make a compelling argument, Doug, and for that I have removed the Electone from the demolition list.

The CVP, Genos, and Tyros will remain on the list unless compelling evidence of their worthiness is brought forth.

I’ve given the CVP several opportunities to come down from that high horse (price) but it has ignored me, and at this point I highly doubt it will be able to redeem itself.

And please, do not show me the “Star Wars” performance again because this will only make it worse for the CVP!

I don't see myself the thrill of owning a CVP, mainly because except for piano, why would you want to play with a weighted graded hammer action? Most of the other sounds just play better on a non-weighted board, including guitar and orchestral sounds.

Even considering my MP7SE in playing many rock-organ /synth type numbers: it's not sensible for regular playing unless I intend first to invent a technology to repair hand damage. The MP7SE contains great sounds as well as the acoustic piano, but surely any serious musician playing piano and organs/synth isn't going to gig with one weighted stage piano---racks and a second controller board are a better solution for preserving digit dexterity. Maybe for one number in a set, you'd risk organ licks on a weighted board, but many numbers multiple times a week? Ouch...

As for the Tyros/Genos, I have a hard time imaging the market for these arranger instruments. I'm pretty sure retired people own more of these compared to the other demographics: some people with disposable income to use up.

Surely a composer would buy a workstation these days rather than an arranger keyboard. A composer/performer who likes to improvise a lot might have use for the arranger type instruments, as you can play piano/organ/synth and all other instruments without a hand transplant, and make use of the orchestral patches and arranger functionality in real time. I'm not that familiar with modern workstations, but I imagine there is a lot of cross-over between top-arrangers and workstations.

Arranger functionality is a much less valuable a tool on a one manual pedal-less organ---essentially what a Tyros/Genos is. On the other hand, perhaps you might have several controller boards in a stand up rack, and that might make more sense. The Tyros/Genos boards are incredibly expensive for what many people use them for.



You might want hire someone talented to play stuff like this on the Genos rather than afford a house band in a variety club I suppose.

Wersi have actually released a one manual version of the OAX series organs --- running on windows 10 --- that a mad or too wealthy person can actually purchase for 7,900 Euros: for those who think the Genos isn't audacious enough:

[Linked Image]

Take this fella: he's spent 7,900 Euros on this, and he is playing chords in the left hand and a melody line in the right hand: he could easily get a reasonable organ on Facebook market place for £250 that would do this kind of thing without sweating to the same standard:



Crazy.

Last edited by Doug M.; 05/16/21 12:09 PM.

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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Even considering my MP7SE in playing many rock-organ /synth type numbers: it's not sensible for regular playing unless I intend first to invent a technology to repair hand damage. The MP7SE contains great sounds as well as the acoustic piano, but surely any serious musician playing piano and organs/synth isn't going to gig with one weighted stage piano---racks and a second controller board are a better solution for preserving digit dexterity. Maybe for one number in a set, you'd risk organ licks on a weighted board, but many numbers multiple times a week? Ouch...

Sometimes I do wonder if playing on heavy weighted Yahama keys for 30 years is why my 2-5 RH fingers feel like they're on fire sometimes, from the knuckles to up past my wrist.

Then again I don't play a ton, maybe 15-30 minutes a day. And it usually only hurts during spring and fall weather changes, so might just be the start of regular hand arthritis.

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Originally Posted by qpalzm
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Even considering my MP7SE in playing many rock-organ /synth type numbers: it's not sensible for regular playing unless I intend first to invent a technology to repair hand damage. The MP7SE contains great sounds as well as the acoustic piano, but surely any serious musician playing piano and organs/synth isn't going to gig with one weighted stage piano---racks and a second controller board are a better solution for preserving digit dexterity. Maybe for one number in a set, you'd risk organ licks on a weighted board, but many numbers multiple times a week? Ouch...

Sometimes I do wonder if playing on heavy weighted Yahama keys for 30 years is why my 2-5 RH fingers feel like they're on fire sometimes, from the knuckles to up past my wrist.

Then again I don't play a ton, maybe 15-30 minutes a day. And it usually only hurts during spring and fall weather changes, so might just be the start of regular hand arthritis.

That could be a variety of things, but I wouldn't sit on the issue, I'd go see a doctor.
If it's arthritis, there are medications.
If it's caused by something, you'd want to get treatment to prevent nerve damage.


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I don't get the animosity towards the CVP line. There seems to be a bit of elitist snobbery here, where only "pure" digital pianos, or overly complex VSTs are worthy of acceptance. I thought this type of high horse was only reserved for the acoustic forum!

CVPs are only for the "insanely wealthy"? Millions of people of ordinary means spend far more on all kinds of crazy hobbies, like fast cars, boats, motorcycles, even bizarre comic book collections. If the OP wants to spend ten grand on a fun toy that he believes will bring him some happiness, who are we to judge? I love that everyone doesn't want the exact same things, that's what makes us all unique and makes life more interesting!

The CVP line fills a niche for those who want both a digital piano and an arranger, and don't want a room full of keyboards. They want a single instrument in a nice piece of furniture, they don't want to mess with computer and software connections, and they're willing to spend a little extra to have this fun.

The Yamaha CVP 809 is a high quality piano that is enjoyable to play, and while its market is smaller than the cheaper pianos for obvious price reasons, plenty are enjoyed and sold. Justin, I hope you are able to find that affordable CVP, and enjoy it just as much as all the other forum members enjoy their pianos!

Oh, and disco isn't all that bad. laugh

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