2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
63 members (anotherscott, 36251, An Old Square, allegrettoforte, Ajax69, accordeur, 17 invisible), 1,195 guests, and 834 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 7
X
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
X
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 7
I bought my Kawai NV10 In January this year. It's only been 3 and a half month, but I need to call for warranty repair for the second time.

The first time was some abnormal friction noise in a few keys (yes more than one but not adjacent). The technician just widened the holes on the keys using a screw driver.

This time is some rattling noise in the low notes area. I guess something is loose.

Is NV10's quality control really this poor? Can anyone tell me what I should do?


Kawai NV10
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
E
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
It's got wood keys, that can swell and shrink with humidity.

As for the rattling noise, new acoustic actions often need regulation in their very first year after being played in. That's how it's going to be. I'm not sure what modifications they made, but if they use felts the same way, you may need regulation every 3-5 years.

Last edited by EinLudov; 05/01/21 09:27 PM.
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,028
S
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,028
Piano actions might need some minor adjustment after settling into your home environment, and this is normally taken care of by a piano technician, not a digital piano technician though, unless they are cross trained on servicing acoustic actions. I would be concerned by your description of using a screwdriver to ease the key bushings.

We have a rather long thread of user experience with the NV10, it's mixed.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
You're certain he used a screwdriver?
Originally Posted by xybradley
The first time was some abnormal friction noise in a few keys (yes more than one but not adjacent). The technician just widened the holes on the keys using a screw driver.
If so I would not use that technician.

The "holes" under the keys are lined with bushing felt. If the felt is too tight it should be eased (squeezed) using special bushing pliers ... not a screwdriver.

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 7
X
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
X
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You're certain he used a screwdriver?
Originally Posted by xybradley
The first time was some abnormal friction noise in a few keys (yes more than one but not adjacent). The technician just widened the holes on the keys using a screw driver.
If so I would not use that technician.

The "holes" under the keys are lined with bushing felt. If the felt is too tight it should be eased (squeezed) using special bushing pliers ... not a screwdriver.

Originally Posted by EinLudov
It's got wood keys, that can swell and shrink with humidity.

As for the rattling noise, new acoustic actions often need regulation in their very first year after being played in. That's how it's going to be. I'm not sure what modifications they made, but if they use felts the same way, you may need regulation every 3-5 years.


Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Piano actions might need some minor adjustment after settling into your home environment, and this is normally taken care of by a piano technician, not a digital piano technician though, unless they are cross trained on servicing acoustic actions. I would be concerned by your description of using a screwdriver to ease the key bushings.

We have a rather long thread of user experience with the NV10, it's mixed.

Thank you guys for your patient help. You are right that I never regulated the piano since I purchased it. I will ask kawai for a warranty repair, including replacing the keys widened by the screwdriver, and then call for a regulation service.


Kawai NV10
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,885
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,885
You can’t replace individual keys. They are typically milled as a complete set of 88. It’s possible the tech was using a screwdriver as a makeshift way to compress the key bushing cloth. There are also key pin pliers and key bushing pliers that could have been used. Easing tight key bushings is a very normal adjustment for a new acoustic piano action.

Most pianos arrive in an acceptable state of regulation for their intended purpose for a given price point.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 960
M
mwf Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 960
Originally Posted by xybradley
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You're certain he used a screwdriver?
Originally Posted by xybradley
The first time was some abnormal friction noise in a few keys (yes more than one but not adjacent). The technician just widened the holes on the keys using a screw driver.
If so I would not use that technician.

The "holes" under the keys are lined with bushing felt. If the felt is too tight it should be eased (squeezed) using special bushing pliers ... not a screwdriver.

Originally Posted by EinLudov
It's got wood keys, that can swell and shrink with humidity.

As for the rattling noise, new acoustic actions often need regulation in their very first year after being played in. That's how it's going to be. I'm not sure what modifications they made, but if they use felts the same way, you may need regulation every 3-5 years.


Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Piano actions might need some minor adjustment after settling into your home environment, and this is normally taken care of by a piano technician, not a digital piano technician though, unless they are cross trained on servicing acoustic actions. I would be concerned by your description of using a screwdriver to ease the key bushings.

We have a rather long thread of user experience with the NV10, it's mixed.

Thank you guys for your patient help. You are right that I never regulated the piano since I purchased it. I will ask kawai for a warranty repair, including replacing the keys widened by the screwdriver, and then call for a regulation service.

Wow, I'd be amazed if they do all that for you sorry to say... They wouldn't regulate an nv10 in UK for free under warranty i know that for sure, well not if i bought one and asked them to anyway lol... Seems to me you get what you're given and have to live with it when it comes to kawai.

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 7
X
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
X
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by mwf
Wow, I'd be amazed if they do all that for you sorry to say... They wouldn't regulate an nv10 in UK for free under warranty i know that for sure, well not if i bought one and asked them to anyway lol... Seems to me you get what you're given and have to live with it when it comes to kawai.

Definitely that's not covered by warranty. I think they meant I should schedule a regulation service since it is just moved from the dealership to my home just like I should get it tuned if it were an acoustic piano. And definitely I need to pay for it.

Originally Posted by terminaldegree
You can’t replace individual keys. They are typically milled as a complete set of 88. It’s possible the tech was using a screwdriver as a makeshift way to compress the key bushing cloth. There are also key pin pliers and key bushing pliers that could have been used. Easing tight key bushings is a very normal adjustment for a new acoustic piano action.

Most pianos arrive in an acceptable state of regulation for their intended purpose for a given price point.

Really? But the technician took notes of the key numbers and tried to order the parts. Also, is it really normal to use a screwdriver to widen the hole? Intuitively it looks too brutal...


Kawai NV10
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
E
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
I wouldn't worry about the screw driver. Even the pliers are just blunt instruments used to squeeze the felt. They make the pliers for reasons of efficiency, it doesn't mean some other tool can't do its job. This isn't anything like robotic surgery. grin

As for replacing the key, I don't think that's necessary but it is replaceable. On a regular action they'd have to rebalance that new stick.

Last edited by EinLudov; 05/02/21 09:56 PM.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,267
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,267
Regarding rattling in the bass area, I think it might be a loose nut of the hammer rest rail. It’s not a very uncommon thing and is super easy to fix, you can do it. I believe in the NV10 thread there are some pictures and instructions.

That being said I like how Yamaha have an embedded felt in the whippen that serves the same function without a need for tightening/regulation.

Last edited by CyberGene; 05/02/21 11:47 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,028
S
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,028
I don't think it's the screwdriver as such that's the problem, but the fact that the technician had to use a screwdriver, so was not prepared to adjust an acoustic action. Alarm bells. But, he should have had and used the proper tools. This is a premier action, so they say.

If mwf is correct and Kawai won't service an NV10 (or NV5) action, for free, in say the first few months, in the UK, service by a piano technician, then I would not consider purchasing one.

This is not the first report of a Kawai hybrid action needing adjustment soon after delivery. That's likely fair enough, except that they should be prepared to take the necessary steps, as part of the overall package.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yes, if you pay $10,000-ish for a piano, you deserve one that performs properly.
And if regulation is required, it ought to be done by a properly trained and equipped technician, not by a screwdriver jockey.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 724
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 724
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, if you pay $10,000-ish for a piano, you deserve one that performs properly.
...

Totally legit expectation. $10K also means some 'peace of mind' included in the package.


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
G. K. Chesterton
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
I should have said that if you pay any amount for a piano, you deserve one that performs properly.

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,633
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,633
Yes, to be blunt, Kawai has quality control issues with the NV10. My experience shared on the "NV10 Hands on" thread is an example. My previous pianos from Kawai: CS11, K200atx2, CA97, CN35, were all problem free. However, as I have posted many times, their technical service is excellent. At least here in the US.

That being said; how much more efficient would it be if they concentrated on quality in the factory? Like making sure all the screws were tight!😒

It's a great piano, and I am glad I got it. Also, there is nothing on the market short of an N3x or an acoustic with a silent system to replace it. Looking back, now that I use VST's, if I had known of virtual pianos, I could have kept and been happy with the K200atx.


Kawai NV10
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 551
H
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 551
How frequent is these kinds of issues in Kawai acoustic grands like their lower level GL10? Since acoustic pianos have hammer felt they need more regulations. I guess maybe it’s the expectation of buying a hybrid piano that it needs regulation.

Is NV10 produced in Indonesia like GL10? Does it share the same action of the GL series? It’s hard for me to imagine that NV10 has an action of inferior quality than the GL series because it doesn’t make sense.


Piano: 1982 NY Steinway Model B, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X
VST(preference in order): VSL Synchron Pianos, Vienna Imperial, Garritan CFX, VI Labs Modern U, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 7
X
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
X
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by Harpuia
How frequent is these kinds of issues in Kawai acoustic grands like their lower level GL10? Since acoustic pianos have hammer felt they need more regulations. I guess maybe it’s the expectation of buying a hybrid piano that it needs regulation.

Is NV10 produced in Indonesia like GL10? Does it share the same action of the GL series? It’s hard for me to imagine that NV10 has an action of inferior quality than the GL series because it doesn’t make sense.

Yes NV10 is made in Indonesia. The actions is literally different from but should be similar to GL10's. NV10's action is called Millennium III Hybrid and GL10's is Millennium III Grand.


Kawai NV10
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 551
H
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 551
I don’t see a motivation for Kawai to make an inferior action line for NV10. GL10 doesn’t cost too much more than the NV10 yet it is a complete acoustic piano. I can’t imagine that the action of gl10 costing more.


Piano: 1982 NY Steinway Model B, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X
VST(preference in order): VSL Synchron Pianos, Vienna Imperial, Garritan CFX, VI Labs Modern U, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,633
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,633
The action, except for the lack of hammers, is the same action used in the GL30 and the GX1. (5' 5" pianos). It's a little better than the GL10 action due to longer key sticks.


Kawai NV10
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,633
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,633
I also want to mention the NV10 action is made in Japan.


Kawai NV10
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Shopping spree reports
by Marc345 - 11/27/21 06:24 PM
Fishy scientific experiment - needs candidates.
by ZeroZero - 11/27/21 04:09 PM
Happy Holidays Everyone!!
by Oniap - 11/27/21 01:56 PM
Bestselling Adult Beginner Method Books Reviewed
by scientistplayspian - 11/27/21 01:38 PM
Heartattack - how my iPad destroyed my Piano
by Senahoi - 11/27/21 12:49 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,279
Posts3,149,228
Members103,449
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5