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Originally Posted by Eli26
Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by EPW
Sure peterws tempt me to spend more money on the Petrof model wink

Hey! Go easy, man! It's good; it's not that good!
I've been fiddling with it, and in it's initial state it sounds like a sampled Digital. We can't be having that. I played my other heavily tweaked voices and can now see why I did this.
This new voice needs the unisons widening, the sympathetic resonance increased and de-tuned savagely.
Then it will begin to sound like the real thing and not a sanitized sample.
But version 7.3 does sound richer overall to me.

I'm a newbie with pianoteq. You Mentioned 3 characteristics which you recommend changing. Could you please be more specific so newbies like myself can get the sound you are getting? That would be very much appreciated.

1. Unison widening.... what value should that setting be at? Or is it different note by note?
2. Sympathetic resonance.... again, what value?
3. Detuning..... how, and to what extent? (Numerically)

Sorry if my question seems ignorant and/or lazy,For clarification would be really really great. Thanks!

You'll really have to try these out for yourself, safe in the knowledge that you can revert back to your original settings easily if you don't save the new ones. The three I mentioned seem to have the biggest and best effect without splitting hairs. There's a lot in pianoteq which is . . . .complex to some, and very timewasting.
Have fun! It's a great product..


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Although in a recent thread about tweaking maximum performance out of Pianoteq 7 STAGE I failed to get a pleasing sound and gave up, I have recently been back to practicing on Pianoteq 7 in lieu of my Garritan CFX. After multiple days of playing exclusively Pianoteq, it think I became so used to its great playability, that when I went back to Garritan CFX, its playability felt not quite as refined. Although I still hear the "muffled" effect in Pianoteq's sound, somehow it has become more acceptable to me. I think I've reached a level of contentment that I couldn't reach before, and, through exclusively practicing with Pianoteq, have grown content with its sound.

So, this thread caught my attention. To see what the fuss was about, I loaded up the Ant. Petrof 275 (demo version) and played it. And, enjoyed it. Unless there is some reason not to do it, I'm going to upgrade to 7.3. Hopefully, this will provide me the demo version of the new Ant. Petrof Mistral.

Originally Posted by peterws
I just got rid of Pianoteq 7.3 and replaced it with my previous 7.03 with some degree of sorrow. That new Petrof was great, and the voicing seems also to have been improved across the range. To the degree that I simply can't recognise the different instruments any more. I had 6 different instruments which sounded darn near the same. Good, but pointless. I'd rather have the imperfections such as they are, knowing that they'll still sound great recorded.
Sigh. (shrug)

I'm surprised at this, peterws! I find the German Steinway D, the New York Steinway D, the Ant. Petrof 225 and the Bechstein sufficiently distinct to easily note the differences. My experience is admittedly with STAGE with no tweaking except for Output settings of:

Sound Recording
Volume Slider = -9db
Dynamics Slider = 92db

With this minimal tweaking, the pianos sound sufficiently distinct that I do not consider them as sounding the same.

I wonder if your tweaking with the middle level version (I forget its name) has taken all the difference out of yours. Have you tried going back to their default, or near default, settings to see if you can like those sounds?

I am hearing enough difference that I am considering getting the new Petrof Mistral. I'm anxious to hear more demos of it on YouTube and to play its demo version in 7.3.

Last edited by Ralphiano; 04/09/21 09:44 PM.

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Originally Posted by Ralphiano
Originally Posted by peterws
I just got rid of Pianoteq 7.3 and replaced it with my previous 7.03 with some degree of sorrow. That new Petrof was great, and the voicing seems also to have been improved across the range. To the degree that I simply can't recognise the different instruments any more. I had 6 different instruments which sounded darn near the same. Good, but pointless. I'd rather have the imperfections such as they are, knowing that they'll still sound great recorded.
Sigh. (shrug)

I'm surprised at this, peterws! I find the German Steinway D, the New York Steinway D, the Ant. Petrof 225 and the Bechstein sufficiently distinct to easily note the differences. My experience is admittedly with STAGE with no tweaking except for Output settings of:

Sound Recording
Volume Slider = -9db
Dynamics Slider = 92db

With this minimal tweaking, the pianos sound sufficiently distinct that I do not consider them as sounding the same.

I wonder if your tweaking with the middle level version (I forget its name) has taken all the difference out of yours. Have you tried going back to their default, or near default, settings to see if you can like those sounds?

I am hearing enough difference that I am considering getting the new Petrof Mistral. I'm anxious to hear more demos of it on YouTube and to play its demo version in 7.3.

My 7.3 came with factory defaults, strangely. But I just tweak resonances and tuning mainly to achieve a more natural sound. I'll no doubt try again, but my 7.03 at the moment is sound. I did love the Petrof Mistral though.
Too much fiddling! Not enough work being done!

Last edited by peterws; 04/10/21 02:28 AM.

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Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
I would rate playability of Hammersmith Full much higher than Garritan CFX (but I own only Lite).
Ok, thanks for your input. Yesterday I listened to some demos of the Hammersmith and although it seems like a beautiful piano it sounds a bit bright to me. It's seems that they have a free version from time to time but that wasn't available at the moment. How would you describe it's general character?

Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Thank you, how does the Hammersmith and the Garritan CFX compare when it comes to playability? I've been looking at the VSL pianos but apparently they don't have binaural recordings. Can you (or anyone else) say how they compare when playing with headphones?

In short, though they are not true binaural recordings, they sound wonderful, but don't take my word as is. Expanding:-

- The VSL Synchron Pianos player has a multitude of configurable options including very intricate pan settings, for each mic.
- Combine those settings with the correct close player mic selections (there are 3 of them).
- Apply a selection of effects and reverbs, again, to each mic.

I am pretty confident by tweaking the settings, you can produce a sound that closely matches a binaural sample. I think it requires a lot of patience and experimentation.

Good to know. Yes, the VSL pianos seems like solid products. Can't decide which one to go for though:)


Originally Posted by CraiginNZ
I only have the free Hammersmith so can't speak to that instrument. The playability of the Garritan is really excellent, though; it's extremely responsive and immersive as a playing experience. I don't feel like it loses out in any way to Pianoteq, though I don't have the most sophisticated technique to put it to the test!

Thank you, the Garritan seems to be a hugely popular choice so I might give it a try. It's too bad there isn't many demo versions among the different VST choices.



Originally Posted by EB5AGV
I use VSL Bösendorfer Imperial quite a lot with headphones and can use it for hours without listening fatigue.

That sounds good. I'm leaning towards either the Imperial or the 280VC. I like the more intimate sound of the 280VC due to the smaller room but I think I prefer the sound of the piano itself with the imperial. Have you tried the different VSL options?


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I slipped off topic with the last post, sorry.......


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I’ve read about ‘flying cars’ on this forum, and as far as I’m concerned, the ‘title’ of that thread had nothing to do with flying nor with cars; so no, you’re not ‘off topic’ in my book!

The truth is that there’s only so much one can say about any specific topic (especially anything with ‘Pianoteq’ in the title) before it turns into a war of the worlds: “Pianoteq is good”; “Pianoteq sucks”; “it’s still not there”; “sampling is obsolete”, etc...

Then it gets nerdy and overly technical, and suddenly I’m reading about Drake’s equation, the Pythagorean theorem, and how Einstein’s theory of relativity negates modeling on the notion that, all things being equal, nothing can exceed the speed of light; therefore, it is impossible to calculate the exact position of a particle that is here but also there simultaneously.

“It’s just not possible scientifically, so it must be some form of spooky magic at a distance”.


So no, you’re not off topic, but I digress!

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I have both the 280VC (Full) and the Imperial (Standard) and I tend to use the Imperial quite a lot more. It sounds great both with speakers and headphones


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...plus some other DPs, synths, controllers and VSTs

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Originally Posted by Ralphiano
! I find the German Steinway D, the New York Steinway D, the Ant. Petrof 225 and the Bechstein sufficiently distinct to easily note the differences. My experience is admittedly with STAGE with no tweaking except for Output settings of:

Sound Recording
Volume Slider = -9db
Dynamics Slider = 92db

With this minimal tweaking, the pianos sound sufficiently distinct that I do not consider them as sounding the same.

.

Tbh I don't think that as tweaking. It will not change the sound at all, just the response to you playing it.


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Quote
So no, you’re not off topic, but I digress!


Now that has to be the under-statement of the year laugh


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
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Originally Posted by Ralphiano
So, this thread caught my attention. To see what the fuss was about, I loaded up the Ant. Petrof 275 (demo version) and played it. And, enjoyed it. Unless there is some reason not to do it, I'm going to upgrade to 7.3. Hopefully, this will provide me the demo version of the new Ant. Petrof Mistral.

The only reason folks may be hesitant to upgrade is if they have perfected their own custom presets or if they are in the middle of a recording project.

With major version updates like 7.3, instruments may be revoiced, and so custom presets are generally impacted. Even then, it's quite easy to switch back, so there is minimal risk.

Otherwise, there is simply no reason not to upgrade. The steady flow of improvements and progress are wonderful to behold.

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I have to agree navindra about upgrading. Modartt might me making small progress but they are making progress. Now I have to find the pennies to buy the Petrof piano pack smile


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Originally Posted by Pete14
I’ve read about ‘flying cars’ on this forum, and as far as I’m concerned, the ‘title’ of that thread had nothing to do with flying nor with cars; so no, you’re not ‘off topic’ in my book!

The truth is that there’s only so much one can say about any specific topic (especially anything with ‘Pianoteq’ in the title) before it turns into a war of the worlds: “Pianoteq is good”; “Pianoteq sucks”; “it’s still not there”; “sampling is obsolete”, etc...

Then it gets nerdy and overly technical, and suddenly I’m reading about Drake’s equation, the Pythagorean theorem, and how Einstein’s theory of relativity negates modeling on the notion that, all things being equal, nothing can exceed the speed of light; therefore, it is impossible to calculate the exact position of a particle that is here but also there simultaneously.

“It’s just not possible scientifically, so it must be some form of spooky magic at a distance”.


So no, you’re not off topic, but I digress!
You're very tolerant smile

I just curious about sampled library's for, if nothing else, educate myself for participating in the "modeling vs sampling debate" smile Now back to topic.

I've been playing the Petrof 284 Mistral for a couple of days now and I must say it's quite nice and rather different from the Ant. Petrof 275. The tone is clear and transparent and it has a very deep bass that is very solid but perhaps one could wish for the bass to "open up" with louder nuances. However I guess this is a Petrof characteristic and gives it a strong personality very different from Steinway or Yamaha. The treble is bright/light and singing. Over all a very nice instrument and a nice complement to the great Ant. Petrof.


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Have a listen to Mistheria’s virtual unboxing:

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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
You're very tolerant smile

That’s what a two-week sabbatical in the Himalayas will do to you!

You see, the monks showed me the way, for I was lost and could not find the resort.

“I am lost and cannot find my way (to the resort), can you help me?”, I asked.
The monks pointed at my heart -‘hello, I’m Pete’- as if asking “are you Pete?”
I nodded, indicating that indeed I was the name-tag placed around my heart, and I said again, “but you see, I’m lost”.

The monks pointed again, but this time they pointed straight at the resort, as if saying, “you idiot, the resort is right in front of you”!

I blushed, took off my name-tag, and nodded again, but this time as a sign of appreciation to the monks for ‘showing me the way’.

I’ve never been the same since, and now, I am indeed a very tolerant man.


Kumbaya,

Pete (a.k.a. Ben Dover).

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by johanibraaten
You're very tolerant smile

That’s what a two-week sabbatical in the Himalayas will do to you!

You see, the monks showed me the way, for I was lost and could not find the resort.

“I am lost and cannot find my way (to the resort), can you help me?”, I asked.
The monks pointed at my heart -‘hello, I’m Pete’- as if asking “are you Pete?”
I nodded, indicating that indeed I was the name-tag placed around my heart, and I said again, “but you see, I’m lost”.

The monks pointed again, but this time they pointed straight at the resort, as if saying, “you idiot, the resort is right in front of you”!

I blushed, took off my name-tag, and nodded again, but this time as a sign of appreciation to the monks for ‘showing me the way’.

I’ve never been the same since, and now, I am indeed a very tolerant man.


Kumbaya,

Pete (a.k.a. Ben Dover).


Where did I put my kleenex? This brought tears to my eyes wink

I heard the monks are now using Organteq when they practice chant music. Heard it from a monk who heard it from a monk who heard it from a monk.......


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Originally Posted by EPW
I heard the monks are now using Organteq when they practice chant music. Heard it from a monk who heard it from a monk who heard it from a monk.......

Monks and Organs? My illusions are shattered!


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Originally Posted by peterws
Monks and Organs?
Morgans? blush

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I think the monks are content with monophony. No organs necessary.


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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Originally Posted by mmathew
I think the monks are content with monophony. No organs necessary.

Monks are actually pretty musically innovative and can do multiphonic singing:



And they have a sense of humor...


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Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by EPW
I heard the monks are now using Organteq when they practice chant music. Heard it from a monk who heard it from a monk who heard it from a monk.......

Monks and Organs? My illusions are shattered!

Was it a "Grand Illusion"


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
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