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Having spent 8 years living just across the border from you, I can count on one finger the number of pianos I played or serviced that did not have significant structural problems if in original condition at the age of 50+ years. The upper midwestern climate is just brutal to acoustic pianos.
Once you find something, try and do something to even out the seasonal humidity extremes, if you don’t already do that in your home.
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From reading your posts, it looks like you have a few requirements (some of which may conflict a bit). I’m putting them in a list form, but I doubt the order will be quite right for you. 1. Playable piano. 2. Aesthetically fits in with antique furniture (no ‘polished ebony’) 3. Within a $5000 total budget 4. Something you may want to keep forever My personal feeling is that as you are still in college, it may not be the right time to really be thinking about the piano you will have forever, and I think you may ultimately be happier with your decision if you think about it as getting what you want TODAY rather than trying to find THE piano you will want FOREVER. How you rank your requirements will really impact what makes the most sense for you. Remember that dealers will offer trade deals, so there are definitely mechanisms to upgrade down the road. I think an interesting option for you may be a new or lightly played, fairly recent console from one of the big manufacturers (Yamaha and Kawai make them; I’m sure others do as well). I had one of these growing up. I will say that they are NOT fantastic, deeply inspiring instruments. But they are playable and they are manufactured in cabinetry that, to my eye, is quite attractive and may fit your aesthetics better than a U1 or K300, etc. My sense is that these are in the market as ‘starter’ pianos; that they are usually purchased for families and that as such, their fate is ultimately to be upgraded if the kid displays interest/aptitude or to be sold to make room for furniture, once the kid has moved onto something else (or out of the house). So there are probably a number of them that are really quite lightly played (and hopefully were reasonably maintained). Since your preference is for mellower, less bright pianos, Kawais might be a good place to look. The SMP on a new Kawai 508, per pianobuyer, is $6590, so it may even be possible to get a new one within—or close to—your budget. https://kawaius.com/product/508/This is an option that tries to mesh playability with some of your aesthetic requirements, but depending on how you rank your requirements, there may be better options for you. Good luck!
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I think Sgisela has given you excellent advice. I recently helped a friend buy a piano (budget of $4K) and she ended up with a Kawai 506N under her budget. I was really surprised at how much I like that model! It had a very warm, round sound. Also, it is available in a satin mahogany cabinet that would blend in well with your antique furniture. Another bonus is that it comes with a 10 year transferrable warranty. If you decide to sell it at some point, that gives the buyer peace of mind.
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Thanks so much to everyone who responded and offered their advice!!!
I wanted to give a little update because I just got back from trying out the Sohmer Cupid baby grand and visiting a local piano dealer, where I was able to try out several pianos in (and above) my price range, including several Yamahas, a Young Chang, a Wurlitzer, a Bergmann, a Kawai, and a Nordiska.
My favorite pianos I tried at the dealer were a couple different used Yamaha P22s; they felt very nice to play and were quite responsive, but the tone was definitely much brighter than I'd been hoping for. I also tried out a used U1 which I didn't like as much, but it wasn't in tune so that may have shaped my opinion. The Wurlitzer baby grand I tried was also quite nice, but significantly more expensive than I was planning for.
The Sohmer I tried from a private seller has an absolutely beautiful, warm tone and felt amazing to play - the touch felt just right. Honestly, it's far nicer than anything I thought I'd be able to afford, and I liked it much more than many far more expensive instruments I tried at the dealership. I really appreciate all the advice people have shared here about the risks with buying an old piano and am planning to have a technician inspect it before I make an offer. It does seem to have been quite well-maintained for such an old instrument, as the seller is a retired piano teacher and always had it tuned twice annually.
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If it’s in the Cities, feel free to PM if you want a technician referral.
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GriegFan96 - I'm not too savvy with piano shopping, but I'll tell you some things I hear over and over from others:
1. Determine your price range. Make it fairly tight. 2. Decide whether you prefer an upright or a grand and only shop that style. 3. Decide on a tight size range. 4. Decide on preferred brands within your price range to narrow it down. 5. Decide on build year range. 6. Hire a tech to look at pianos once you whittle your list down to final candidates. 7. Keep auxiliary costs in mind - moving, the tech, work that needs to be done. 8. Try the pianos. 9. Resist the urge to rush the process. 10. Stick with the above 9.
Good luck,
Stormbringer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Working on Alfred's Adult AIO Book 2 1970's: Took piano lessons. 2021: This old man is giving it a 2nd go. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Feel The Power>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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The Sohmer I tried from a private seller has an absolutely beautiful, warm tone and felt amazing to play - the touch felt just right. Honestly, it's far nicer than anything I thought I'd be able to afford, and I liked it much more than many far more expensive instruments I tried at the dealership. I really appreciate all the advice people have shared here about the risks with buying an old piano and am planning to have a technician inspect it before I make an offer. It does seem to have been quite well-maintained for such an old instrument, as the seller is a retired piano teacher and always had it tuned twice annually. That's very exciting! Hope the inspection checks out and that you'll have yourself a wonderful new-to-you piano!
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I hope the inspection goes well! If so, it sounds like you may have found the perfect piano for you! Keep us posted!
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GriegFan96 - I'm not too savvy with piano shopping, but I'll tell you some things I hear over and over from others:
1. Determine your price range. Make it fairly tight. 2. Decide whether you prefer an upright or a grand and only shop that style. 3. Decide on a tight size range. 4. Decide on preferred brands within your price range to narrow it down. 5. Decide on build year range. [...]Stormbringer While I wouldn't argue with your numbers 6 through 10, I certainly wouldn't advise sticking rigidly to any of the above suggestions 1 through 5. It unnecessarily boxes you in to limited choices and closes the door on finding that unexpected gem that you weren't looking for but which could really respond to your musical needs. On the contrary, search with an open mind, try pianos in and above your budget so that you find the sound and touch that really speak to you. It's interesting to me that sound and touch don't even figure in your criteria while for most of us those are the two most important factors in finding a desirable piano, although not factors easily qualified or quantified. We've seen many times on this forum a piano shopper thinking of a grand or of an upright and ending up purchasing the opposite of what was originally planned because the found piano fit more important criteria. What if a person isn't "too savy with piano shopping" and knows only two or three brand names? Is s/he going to limit the search to those brands and perhaps miss out on a good piano just because the brand name is unfamiliar? Build-year matters much less in a used piano than condition. Condition is paramount in auditioning and choosing a used piano. No, I can't agree with these criteria. Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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GriegFan96 - I'm not too savvy with piano shopping, but I'll tell you some things I hear over and over from others:
1. Determine your price range. Make it fairly tight. 2. Decide whether you prefer an upright or a grand and only shop that style. 3. Decide on a tight size range. 4. Decide on preferred brands within your price range to narrow it down. 5. Decide on build year range. [...]Stormbringer While I wouldn't argue with your numbers 6 through 10, I certainly wouldn't advise sticking rigidly to any of the above suggestions 1 through 5. It unnecessarily boxes you in to limited choices and closes the door on finding that unexpected gem that you weren't looking for but which could really respond to your musical needs. On the contrary, search with an open mind, try pianos in and above your budget so that you find the sound and touch that really speak to you. It's interesting to me that sound and touch don't even figure in your criteria while for most of us those are the two most important factors in finding a desirable piano, although not factors easily qualified or quantified. We've seen many times on this forum a piano shopper thinking of a grand or of an upright and ending up purchasing the opposite of what was originally planned because the found piano fit more important criteria. What if a person isn't "too savy with piano shopping" and knows only two or three brand names? Is s/he going to limit the search to those brands and perhaps miss out on a good piano just because the brand name is unfamiliar? Build-year matters much less in a used piano than condition. Condition is paramount in auditioning and choosing a used piano. No, I can't agree with these criteria. Regards,
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BruceD + gwing,
You're both right and I mentioned that I'm not too savvy with piano shopping. I do believe in doing some upfront research first rather than being uninformed and setting myself up for an impulse buy. Emotional appeal is certainly part of the final decision, but I'd rather have something of an idea of what I am getting into and why. Budget, style of piano, size, and an idea of what brands would serve me best are important to me.
Number 8 - Try the pianos - would be "sound and touch".
I'm no expert and I would defer to guys like you. Just advising some reading up front, analyzing, planning, and then sticking to the plan. I have a couple degrees in computer science and I think like an engineer. I approach most things in life with that mindset so that I don't have quite so many regrets. It's served me extremely well. Just trying to be helpful.
Sorry if you found my input foolish or upsetting.
Stormbringer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Working on Alfred's Adult AIO Book 2 1970's: Took piano lessons. 2021: This old man is giving it a 2nd go. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Feel The Power>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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BruceD + gwing,
You're both right and I mentioned that I'm not too savvy with piano shopping. I do believe in doing some upfront research first rather than being uninformed and setting myself up for an impulse buy. Emotional appeal is certainly part of the final decision, but I'd rather have something of an idea of what I am getting into and why. Budget, style of piano, size, and an idea of what brands would serve me best are important to me.
Number 8 - Try the pianos - would be "sound and touch".
I'm no expert and I would defer to guys like you. Just advising some reading up front, analyzing, planning, and then sticking to the plan. I have a couple degrees in computer science and I think like an engineer. I approach most things in life with that mindset so that I don't have quite so many regrets. It's served me extremely well. Just trying to be helpful.
Sorry if you found my input foolish or upsetting.
Stormbringer Hey no. it's no problem. I do computers and tend to be overly analytical as well but finding the right piano is like a practical task with a sample set of one. I would like it if all pianos from a manufacturer had the same sound so that we could narrow things down that way, I would like it if every piano of the same type sounded the same so that could at least find a model we liked and then look for examples of it, I would like it if there was even a definition (or ideally scale) for 'good' that we can agree on. Regrettably none of those things are true so what we are left with is no better solution than to play as many different pianos as we realistically can. If you live somewhere where there are many more pianos available than you can look at you can use research and the playing experiences you have made to eliminate some of the less likely candidates but as things are so fuzzy and depend on the condition of the individual instrument every time we get efficient and narrow the search we risk missing the piano that would be best for us. So don't narrow the search until you are pretty sure you know what to cut out.
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BruceD + gwing,
[...] Sorry if you found my input foolish or upsetting.
Stormbringer No; neither foolish nor upsetting. It's just a difference of opinion based on a different perspective. Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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what we are left with is no better solution than to play as many different pianos as we realistically can. If you live somewhere where there are many more pianos available than you can look at you can use research and the playing experiences you have made to eliminate some of the less likely candidates but as things are so fuzzy and depend on the condition of the individual instrument every time we get efficient and narrow the search we risk missing the piano that would be best for us. So don't narrow the search until you are pretty sure you know what to cut out. Also a computer engineer. I set out with a budget, expecting that I'd find a few pianos that I really liked at one of the three dealers in town and then would pick one. It seemed like a very reasonable thing to do. I had done a lot of reading and was excited about various brands. So many well-regarded options! Well, it didn't work out at all like I'd expected. I wasn't excited by any of the pianos in town, had to expand my search, fell in love with a piano far above my budget in another town. Turns out that piano buying for me ended up being an incredibly emotional decision. But I was of course struggling with the practical aspect of spending $$$$. I didn't end up with that piano, but I did end up spending twice my original budget 😂 I realize many people have a fixed budget and not a "preferred" budget. Hope the OP has found their piano! By the way, I looked at the pic and it'll fit so nicely in a house of antique furniture!
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I understand.
Thanx,
Stormbringer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Working on Alfred's Adult AIO Book 2 1970's: Took piano lessons. 2021: This old man is giving it a 2nd go. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Feel The Power>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I just wanted to give a quick update on my piano search!
My piano technician evaluated the Sohmer piano, and unfortunately it needs far more work than I can afford to have done at the moment. Like many of you suspected, 94 years of age and the Minnesota climate have not been kind to the instrument and the cost of repairs would end up exceeding the purchase cost for the instrument. Maybe in the future I will be able to afford a rebuilt antique piano, but it isn't in the cards at the moment.
After this experience, I'm shifting my search's focus to newer console or studio pianos, and I'd love to hear any recommendations you have! I know a few of you already mentioned Kawai consoles as a good option in my price point, and I did really like the Yamaha P22s I tried at a local dealer. My technician recommended another local dealer, and their website shows that they have consoles or studios from both Yamaha and Kawai as well as from several European makers, so I will definitely be going there as soon as I have a chance.
The difficult thing about this search is that I haven't played or practiced for a few years now since transferring out of a conservatory into a different field of study. Being extremely out of practice, I'm finding it difficult to properly judge the pianos I try. But in order to get my playing back into shape and be able to properly judge a piano, I need a piano to practice on, so it's a bit of a conundrum!
Thanks again to everyone who offered their advice!
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The difficult thing about this search is that I haven't played or practiced for a few years now since transferring out of a conservatory into a different field of study. Being extremely out of practice, I'm finding it difficult to properly judge the pianos I try. But in order to get my playing back into shape and be able to properly judge a piano, I need a piano to practice on, so it's a bit of a conundrum! I know that feeling. You might consider getting a cheap digital, just for practice. Last year I found a free one that has served that purpose to a large extent.
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The difficult thing about this search is that I haven't played or practiced for a few years now since transferring out of a conservatory into a different field of study. Being extremely out of practice, I'm finding it difficult to properly judge the pianos I try. But in order to get my playing back into shape and be able to properly judge a piano, I need a piano to practice on, so it's a bit of a conundrum! I know that feeling. You might consider getting a cheap digital, just for practice. Last year I found a free one that has served that purpose to a large extent. That's a really good idea! I did notice a used Clavinova on Craigslist that caught my interest, although it did seem suspiciously cheap. I also thought maybe I should just buy the cheapest acoustic piano available from a dealer that allows trade-ins, and then upgrade in a year or two. One of the dealers I was looking at had a console for $199.
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I also sympathize. I ended up buying a clavinova 6 months ago, because it felt like there was a lot less pressure to make the ‘right’ decision than would exist with any acoustic piano (much less finding my ‘dream’ piano). 6 months later... and I just I bought a beautiful grand piano! But the clavinova definitely did its job. It got me to a place where I felt sufficiently capable of playing that I could make a reasonably informed decision about which ‘dream’ piano was right for me.
I think the question about the cheap used acoustic vs a cheap digital is one that you are capable of making after playing the pianos. Even if you are a little rusty, it sounds like you probably have enough experience to know if the pianos are playable or not — and to figure out which one you will enjoy more.
Good luck!
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I also sympathize. I ended up buying a clavinova 6 months ago, because it felt like there was a lot less pressure to make the ‘right’ decision than would exist with any acoustic piano (much less finding my ‘dream’ piano). 6 months later... and I just I bought a beautiful grand piano! But the clavinova definitely did its job. It got me to a place where I felt sufficiently capable of playing that I could make a reasonably informed decision about which ‘dream’ piano was right for me.
I think the question about the cheap used acoustic vs a cheap digital is one that you are capable of making after playing the pianos. Even if you are a little rusty, it sounds like you probably have enough experience to know if the pianos are playable or not — and to figure out which one you will enjoy more.
Good luck! Thanks for sharing your experience and advice! It's great to hear that you were able to successfully use a less expensive instrument as a "bridge" into finding your dream piano. I saw your thread about your new piano, it's absolutely gorgeous, congratulations!! You're definitely right that the only way to decide will be for me to try out both options! I don't have much experience with digital pianos, but one of my childhood teachers had a Clavinova and it did seem to have a surprisingly good touch and tone.
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Piano
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Piano
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