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Garritan CFX has a binaural sampling and is fine.

The other virtual piano which has binaural sampling is the Hammersmith which is quite brighter but fine too (but I prefer mellower pianos).


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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
We can have something more physically oriented. Compute the sine coefficients according to d’Alembert formulae and the strinking point, then modulate each coefficient to match the Fourier transform of the samples (if the striking point is adequate). The modulation is the piano signature stored in Pianoteq.

OMG! That one swiftly flew over my head. #TechSaturation


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The d’Alembert formulae does describe the vibration of a string like a piano or a guitar string.

Given some initial conditions (which are quite different depending if the string is plucked or striked), you can deduce from the d’Alembert formulae each harmonic amplitudes of the string. Since the soundboard act as an EQ, you should multiply each string amplitude by a given number to match the chosen piano sound.

The mathematics are a bit complex (2 variables differential equation), but can be taught by physics lessons in university.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_equation smile

(The striking point parameter does impact the initial condition and then the timbre : strike the string at its 9th length and you have no 9th harmonic).

Last edited by Frédéric L; 04/08/21 04:27 PM.

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I just got rid of Pianoteq 7.3 and replaced it with my previous 7.03 with some degree of sorrow. That new Petrof was great, and the voicing seems also to have been improved across the range. To the degree that I simply can't recognise the different instruments any more. I had 6 different instruments which sounded darn near the same. Good, but pointless. I'd rather have the imperfections such as they are, knowing that they'll still sound great recorded.
Sigh. (shrug)


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Originally Posted by peterws
I just got rid of Pianoteq 7.3 and replaced it with my previous 7.03 with some degree of sorrow. That new Petrof was great, and the voicing seems also to have been improved across the range. To the degree that I simply can't recognise the different instruments any more. I had 6 different instruments which sounded darn near the same. Good, but pointless. I'd rather have the imperfections such as they are, knowing that they'll still sound great recorded.
Sigh. (shrug)

Strangely, I don't feel that way. I upgraded from V7.0.0 to V7.3.0 step by step. The several pianos I use, such as the YC5/ SteinwayB /Bluthner, still behave completely differently with each upgrade, even though most of the basic settings are the same(Velocity, Microphones, Harmer Hardness, Reverb effect...)

But of course, most pianos do sound very similar on their default presets in V7. You can try more of your own settings, and don't forget the Morphing function, even self-morphing two or three times, to make a difference.


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Self-morphing you say? shocked

The various Pianoteq pianos definitely sound very different from each other. I believe we are well past the days where all the instruments sounded the same. The fact that I liked several of the instruments as I auditioned them, and they all felt very individual, is what pushed me to get the studio bundle anyway.

My current preference is the NY Steinway D but the new Petrof is a welcome addition and there is no question that it is a new instrument.

I've reached the point where the NY Steinway D consistently feels better than the native Kawai voice, and this wasn't always the case for me. Pianoteq is just feeling more open, more alive, more resonant, more acoustic-like. I'm always A-B'ing them and the decision used to be very hard. The Kawai would consistently surprise me.

Kawai native still does some things better I think, like staccato. Pianoteq does not sound as crisp for some reason, which is puzzling to say the least... The Kawai staccato matches my acoustic, so I think Modartt just forgot to model staccato entirely... or it could be a reverb thing. For my piano lessons, I have to change to the Kawai voice while doing staccato, else it does not pass muster. laugh

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Are we sure that if you play one and same note 10 times in Pianoteq with the same MIDI velocity (e.g. through programming), it won't generate ten equal soundwaves smile Has anyone done that experimentation? I know there's some randomization slider, but if we switch it off (is it switched off by default?) does it always produce one and same tone bitwise? If so, then it's the same as a sample-based library which is often criticized for producing the same static tone (which isn't always technically true since some sample-based libraries use round-robin samples, meaning they have multiple samples for the same velocity to introduce variety).

Good thought... a more dynamic model and even tuning that changes slightly over time and while playing might liven things up.

Phil Best tried something similar to your experiment, directly inputting MIDI values instead of playing a piece, and he concluded that Pianoteq sounded more sterile compared to the sampler... The samples just have some default character built in to them, but in Pianoteq this is up to the player.


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Originally Posted by navindra
Self-morphing you say? shocked

Yes Navindra, you can try it. Such as morphing Bluthner X3 or even X6 for itself, you will find the difference.
I didn't believe it at first, I always morph different pianos, but my friend told me that. He did the test and analyzed the output waveform. After several self-morphing, the sound was indeed changed, and I felt that the density was higher than original one.
Anyway, the new Morphing and Layering of PTQV7 gives us a lot of possibilities.


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I've been ignoring Petrof275 before,
Just downloaded and played the new Petrof-284, based on Warm presets, only made a few quick adjustments. Wow, so elegant and comfortable piano sound, from bass to high, 3-Bands are very balanced.
Btw, V7.3 can do lid-off in Mics setting.
Will tweak it carefully to find the best way for me later.


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Sound like I'll have to reload 7.3 and try again . . . Tomorrow!


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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Garritan CFX has a binaural sampling and is fine.

The other virtual piano which has binaural sampling is the Hammersmith which is quite brighter but fine too (but I prefer mellower pianos).
Thank you, how does the Hammersmith and the Garritan CFX compare when it comes to playability? I've been looking at the VSL pianos but apparently they don't have binaural recordings. Can you (or anyone else) say how they compare when playing with headphones?

Last edited by johanibraaten; 04/09/21 04:38 AM.

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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Garritan CFX has a binaural sampling and is fine.

The other virtual piano which has binaural sampling is the Hammersmith which is quite brighter but fine too (but I prefer mellower pianos).
Thank you, how does the Hammersmith and the Garritan CFX compare when it comes to playability? I've been looking at the VSL pianos but apparently they don't have binaural recordings. Can you (or anyone else) say how they compare when playing with headphones?

I only have the free Hammersmith so can't speak to that instrument. The playability of the Garritan is really excellent, though; it's extremely responsive and immersive as a playing experience. I don't feel like it loses out in any way to Pianoteq, though I don't have the most sophisticated technique to put it to the test!

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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Garritan CFX has a binaural sampling and is fine.

Garritan CFX has binaural sampling? I was aware that the CFX in Yamaha's top-of-the-line digital pianos has that, but Garritan? That has totally escaped me.


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I would rate playability of Hammersmith Full much higher than Garritan CFX (but I own only Lite).


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Yes, the (full) Garritan CFX has 6 microphones pairs and one of them is a binaural perspective recorded with a Neumann KU100 head.


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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Yes, the (full) Garritan CFX has 6 microphones pairs and one of them is a binaural perspective recorded with a Neumann KU100 head.

All right! Thanks! I only have the "Lite" version, so that may be why I never noticed this. That's actually a very decent reason to upgrade, in my opinion.

I wish this were a typical feature for VI's.


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Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by EPW
Sure peterws tempt me to spend more money on the Petrof model wink

Hey! Go easy, man! It's good; it's not that good!
I've been fiddling with it, and in it's initial state it sounds like a sampled Digital. We can't be having that. I played my other heavily tweaked voices and can now see why I did this.
This new voice needs the unisons widening, the sympathetic resonance increased and de-tuned savagely.
Then it will begin to sound like the real thing and not a sanitized sample.
But version 7.3 does sound richer overall to me.

I'm a newbie with pianoteq. You Mentioned 3 characteristics which you recommend changing. Could you please be more specific so newbies like myself can get the sound you are getting? That would be very much appreciated.

1. Unison widening.... what value should that setting be at? Or is it different note by note?
2. Sympathetic resonance.... again, what value?
3. Detuning..... how, and to what extent? (Numerically)

Sorry if my question seems ignorant and/or lazy,For clarification would be really really great. Thanks!

Last edited by Eli26; 04/09/21 07:25 AM.
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Regarding staccato with PTQ - I would also take a look at Release Velocity Curve and adjust it depending on your MIDI keyboard note-off implementation.


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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Thank you, how does the Hammersmith and the Garritan CFX compare when it comes to playability? I've been looking at the VSL pianos but apparently they don't have binaural recordings. Can you (or anyone else) say how they compare when playing with headphones?

In short, though they are not true binaural recordings, they sound wonderful, but don't take my word as is. Expanding:-

- The VSL Synchron Pianos player has a multitude of configurable options including very intricate pan settings, for each mic.
- Combine those settings with the correct close player mic selections (there are 3 of them).
- Apply a selection of effects and reverbs, again, to each mic.

I am pretty confident by tweaking the settings, you can produce a sound that closely matches a binaural sample. I think it requires a lot of patience and experimentation.


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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Originally Posted by EB5AGV
My only complaint with PTQ is that with headphones I get tired easily, while sampled libraries can endure a two hour long session without any troubles. I have tried reducing higher frequencies using the equaliser, and it helps somewhat, but still there is something which makes me switch in relatively short time. But with speakers it is easier to my ears... Anyone with same problem?
I agree that pianoteq can be hard on the ears, but I find it highly dependable on the preset. Many seems to fancy the "prelude" or the "player" presets, but to me they are among the most demanding for the ears through headphones. I like the pure presets that has the model name like "Steinway model B", "Ant. Perrof 275" but some recording presets are nice too, like "NY Steinway jazz recording". To me these presets are easier on the ears. However, if I compare the general pianoteq sound with the built in sounds of my DP:s, the balance between registers are different and the treble is louder compared to the lower registers (more like sitting at an acoustic piano), but this make somehow the built in sounds easier on the ears with headphones. Luckily you can adjust this in pianoteq (standard and pro). I wish that Modartt will implement something like Yamahas binaural mode. There is a binaural mode in pianoteq but it's not the same.

May I ask if you have any recommendations for sampled librarys that's comfortable to play through headphones?

Thanks for your comments, will do some tests with pure presets.

I use VSL Bösendorfer Imperial quite a lot with headphones and can use it for hours without listening fatigue.


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